I'm starting to really dislike my daughters's personalities

The BBQ Pit
61

Just a friendly reminder, without pointing fingers, that the OP is still a person as well. And that messages about how you should treat people don’t go as well if you’re treating this real person badly. Some of you have crossed lines that I hope you would never cross in person.

OP, it seems like your problem is with your wife, and you’re misplacing that on your kids. Everyone is right about this behavior being normal, and not remotely indicative of them not being intellectual, either now or in the future. And, if you have problems at home, then said problems will affect the kids.

Considering how bad kids can be in that situation, it sounds like you have awesome kids whom you are raising well.

And, yeah, maybe you should give up on trying to force the issue at this time. Just be encouraging.

And, just my personal opinion, but if they or your wife frustrate you again, don’t rant about it here. Unless the relative is genuinely awful, those threads don’t go well here. It seems someone has to be treated like the awful person, and if it’s not the people you brought up, it will be you.

62

That was the thing that stuck out the most to me too.

63

How the hell do you manage to type so well with your head so firmly wedged up your own arsehole? :confused:

64

He means well.

65

I’m going to answer first without reading the rest of the thread.

My sense throughout your story is that you need to settle your differences with their mother between yourself and their mother. Stop trying to get children to side with you about what’s fun to do on vacation. And never make a plan for kids that doesn’t include food and rest stops. Kids need that more, (and more often), than you do.

Adults and kids are not supposed to like all the same things. Adults are supposed to be better at sharing and showing an interest out of kindness rather than innate interest. In cases like that, there is nothing wrong with you going off by yourself for a bit while they swim.

These are children. Their legs are shorter than yours, their stomachs smaller, and their nutritional needs more demanding. Children are naturally more susceptible to pain and discomfort as well. They are not tough hardened adults yet.

And this one is really reaching, but I’ll give you the impression in case it’s helpful: They seem to feel that you will be grumpy and dissatisfied no matter what they do. But their mother can be pleased, so therefore they opt for pleasing the pleasant parent rather than having two unhappy ones.

My #1 piece of advice is this: You and their mother need to set the daily schedule between yourselves before the children enter the conversation. If that has not been done, then everything you represent above as being “the plan for the day” never was so. It was only your preference, which got voted down three-to-one.

66

What do you mean changed my story? I had and have good relationships with my kiddoes. I was talking about the OPs girls. And I never said “Lol, girls” ever. My teens freinds came to me alot when they couldnt deal with what was up at home. I advised many. Again, I raised, successfully 3 great kids who are now great adults. Finished, finito, done. No one is on drugs or is a serial killer. They are far from perfect, but pretty damn good. Thank you very much.
It’s funny cause we actually are saying the same thing, the OP has no clue what he’s doing to his kids. And they are very young, there’s long way to go yet, getting them raised. The hardest part is yet to come for him and his girls.

ETA out-of-control teen girls can certainly be evil. Glad yours isn’t, btw.

67

OK. Now having read the rest of the thread and your additions, I will say this: You need to spend time with your kids where your wife doesn’t come along. It is absolutely vital that you separate your sense of your wife from your sense of your children. She is an adult and may be as bad as you describe. But they are children and they are acting like children. Your job is to be a parent and gently, deliberately, guide them to being adults.

Look for the things that are good in your girls, and praise them for the qualities you admire. Set limits on the phone use, but keep in mind that it is probably a necessary self-comforting gesture. They need a place to hide. Encourage them to trade it in for a book more often. Maybe get them each a kindle?

And seriously, if your wife won’t go to counseling, go without her. Nobody could live with a person they so despise and not be shooting sparks in every direction. A good many of those sparks are landing on your children, and that’s not fair. They have to live with her too, plus your reaction to her. Ask the counselor for reading material on age-appropriate development and behavior. It really helps to have a grasp on what “normal” is at various stages.

68

I understand where the OP is coming from. I had similar issues with my son while he was growing up. I didn’t always succeed with my travel plans, either, but my son is an adult now and still travels with us, so I can’t have done too badly overall.

Many of my misses involved museums, especially when my son was younger (<13 years old). I love museums, and I like to read every single display. Most people aren’t like that. I remember taking my wife and son to the National Air and Space Museum in Washington, DC when my son was not quite 13 years old. I could have spent the whole day there, but my wife and son were done in just a couple of hours.

Ultimately I realized that it was all I could do to introduce my son to different experiences and not expect him to necessarily love them the way I did. As he got older, though, I seemed to get more hits than misses. He went along with us on a Mediterranean cruise and to Paris when he was 16 years old and seemed to really like it, including the art museums.

Incidentally, I’ve also taken my son to Walt Disney World a few times. OP, do you know what kids most like to do at Walt Disney World? The answer is NOT to hike around the theme parks. What kids actually like best at WDW is to go to the hotel pool. Is it any wonder that the OP’s young daughters would rather go to the hotel pool rather than hike around London?

Finally, I will say that it seems like the OP was trying to fit too much into a short trip. The last day seemed to involve checking out of the hotel, hiking around London with your luggage all day, and catching an evening train back home. That’s a lot to pack into one day, especially when everyone else wasn’t particularly enthused about all of that. It might have been better to stay an extra night. This would have allowed a full day for Harry Potter, a full day to see the sights of London, and plenty of time for the girls to go to the pool.

Anyway, my recommendation would be to take a lesson from all of this, and don’t blame your daughters (who are children, after all), for their childish behavior. Oh, and talk to your wife. You two need to be more in sync. Good luck!

69

I haven’t read the whole thread but I’ve experienced some of the same issues as the op.

We are a blended family with four kids between us. When we started dating they were already teenagers, with the youngest being 11 and the oldest 16, at the time.

Over the years we have taken them many places, and seen many things. I won’t list them all, but I can say that some of our trips have been very difficult when trying to get four teens to agree on anything.

I love Rome. So we took 3 of the kids to Rome, followed by Paris, which I don’t love. They did not enjoy Rome, they didn’t enjoy the old buildings, the art, the heat, the walking, the food. They didn’t complain the whole time, but they weren’t happy. They liked seeing the colosseum. That’s about it.

Then we went to Paris. They LOVED it. We took the hop on hop off at the request of the kids, that was smart. It wasn’t as hot, so that was nice too. However, I really wanted to go to the muse d’orsay. That was a horrible experience. One kid liked it and could have stayed all day, the other two sat on benches pouting and complaining about being hungry the whole godamned time. Nothing moved them. They couldn’t have cared less.

We took out daughters to Barcelona and then to Edinburgh. I LOVE Barcelona. They did not. Edinburgh, in March, on the other hand, they loved.

That same trip I took the girls on a walk through the Peak District. One girl pouted and complained the whole time, the other one took to it like a goat. Climbing up and down soggy hills, having a blast.

Ha, and then two summers ago we did a train tour through Italy. With all four of them. Knowing damn well one doesn’t like to walk, we organised a walk through the cinque terre. I don’t know if anyone is familiar with it, but my god, those are some tough paths. Surpringly there wasn’t too much complaining. But there were a lot of blisters because kids NEVER wear the right shoes. In fact, when we travel with the kids I take extra shoes because I know they will use my practical shoes more than their own. Again though, they enjoyed certain aspects of that trip more than the ones I wanted them to enjoy. You get used to it.

They are now all in their 20’s and look back on those trips with fondness. They dont rememebr how horrible they were, they remember the things that matter now, that we were together as a family.

For me though, I found that each trip got easier. I stopped being so rigid about what they needed to appreciate, and let them enjoy it for themselves. You don’t like the gallery? That sucks, but we’re are going to stay a little longer so that the people that do enjoy it can get an experience out of it. Also, they are always hungry, so make sure to feed them before doing anything you want to do or the complaining will ruin the experience.

70

We were actually supposed to spend an extra night, and at their mother’s suggestion. But after she said that and we looked at the prices, I could hear her sigh and mutter continously “expensive”, “too much”, so I decided to make do with 2 nights. Typical of her behaviour, by the way : dangle a carrot in front of your mouth but behave in such a way that you end up giving it away because it’s just too much of a hassle.

… and you’re wrong, there’s another way. It’s actually exactly the opposite. She knows best and is in charge of everything. If I suggest something that is different from her views, I’m wrong. Bedtime ? I have no say. Use of electronic devices* ? I have no say. Eating habits ? I have no say. Homeworks ? I have no say. Use of our money ? I have no say. If I tell them to do something, they first look at their mother to make sure that she doesn’t disapprove. Only if she doesn’t do them obey me.

  • I wasn’t in favour of them having too many of these things. But she was more than happy to offer them. So, my daughters have a Wii, a PS4, a tablet each, a mobile phone each and that may not be all. Plus the use of the family computer. Now, their mother is angry and screams at them when they overuse their consoles and smartphones. Well, duh ! Again, see my “carrot” analogy above and my comment about sucking the joy out of other people’s enjoyment on the previous page.

OK, you got me there.

However, you seem to have left out Hyde Park and the Buckingham Palace area, the Tower of London, Westminster Abbey, the British Museum and the British Library.

I included these places because they are easy to get to and because they appear or are mentioned in so many books and films that it is worthwhile to see them for real.

Yes, I think that’s the root of all the problems. ** Left Hand of Dorkness** used the word “toxicity” in reference to my observations, which I found really offensive. But the more I think about it, the more I realize that the anger and bitterness I feel is the result of the (mainly verbal but not only) abuse I’ve received from a truly manipulative and toxic person for over 16 years*. And this may be destroying the way I see my daughters. This needs to stop, right now. Of course, whatever I do, I’ll be painted as the evil dad. But I need to break this vicious circle.

  • Hint : when all of your friends and colleagues bar none, even those who you don’t get along with particularly well, tell you that there’s something seriously messed up with the person you’re dating, that you’re becoming “a zombie” or “a wreck”. LISTEN ! I didn’t and I’m now paying the price of my stupidity.

After reading the comments last night, I called my daughters and hugged them. They looked happy.

71

Marriage counseling. You and your wife need it. Get it, with her, or by yourself if she won’t go.

I have no idea whether your marriage can or should be saved, but that’s what you’ve got to figure out first.

I’m not a marriage counselor, but a few decade back, I came up with a short, handy-dandy guide to whether a marriage can work. A couple needs:

*** Mutual trust and respect.

  • Shared or compatible goals/values/worldview.**

Ten words, but they cover a lot of ground. If a couple has that, they can almost certainly make things work if they try. If they don’t have the second, tidal forces will eventually pull their marriage apart. If they don’t have the first, life together has to be pretty unpleasant for one or both parties on an ongoing basis. Feel free to use this to sort things out for yourself it it helps.

72

Thanks for the “guide” RTFirefly.

My answers to it are pretty dismal, though so that clears things up even more.

73

I had a similar experience with my mom, who, several times, said that she’d like to have an RV and leisurely tour the american Southwest for several weeks. So since she mentioned it so much I thought it was part of her bucket list so I asked her if she’d like me to help her do that and she liked the idea of a large vannish conveyance instead of a full-blown RV since we both aren’t experienced large-vehicle drivers yet the upsized van would be spacious enough for both of us to sleep in.

But then the 3 weeks turned into 2 weeks. And the camper van became a car because she didn’t like the idea of driving even that large a vehicle. And she insisted that I fly to the southwest even though I don’t like the hassle of flying so I had to go through the hassle of renting a car and worrying about damaging it, even though I was paying for everything except her plane flight.

And it was a vacation I’d do every other year. I like to vacation by myself and with other people. But once, when we were eating lunch near an interstate interchange, she looked at an RV entering the freeway said wistfully said “you know what I’d like to do? To have an RV and then just spend like 3 weeks or so leisurely touring the Southwest” :confused: :smack:

Visiting Poland (she’s 1/2 polish, I’m 1/4) is also on her bucket list, but any guesses as to whether I am going to help her achieve that?

74

Also, thanks for mentioning the British Library, upon researching it, if I go back to London I will have to literally see it since I like the building.

75

yes, the disconnect from the title and your language, indeed toxic reading in relationship to the small banalities of the pre-ados behavior you describe, it is the case without a doubt.

Good.

76

Did she realize that she was looping back around to the beginning of the series of conversations that had gotten the two of you where you were?

77

That’s the point where I would’ve laughed and said, “No you wouldn’t!”

OP, FWIW, I have never before advised anyone, on or off these boards, to consider divorce. That’s not the kind of thing I do. The way you talk about your wife, though, is so full of hatred and resentment that I found it shocking.

If my wife ever talked about me to friends the way you’re talking about her, much less talked about me to strangers that way, I’d consider it a betrayal far worse than an affair. I really think you need to change something, whether it’s getting counseling or getting a separation.

Good luck.

78

I cannot help noticing how a while back you were posting a thread asking whether you should really go see this or spend the time on something else. The value of the exhibition has obviously increased greatly in your own esteem. Is it really so difficult then to understand that it had not done so in theirs?

And if this was your priority, your main thing you wanted to do, why would you choose to approach it with a needlessly increased walk holding heavy suitcases? Why not:
-leave the luggage with the hotel desk
-go straight to the thing you most want to do
-then go to the lunch that was the one thing the youngest most wanted
-and only THEN fit in whatever hiking and sightseeing was possible given the time and stamina left to the group?

Perhaps you could look in the mirror and draw some lessons about planning and priorities in group travel, rather than concluding that your children are unlikable monsters.

Your daughters didn’t relish these sentimental reminders of the time you threw a temper tantrum in the middle of a foreign city and ditched them for hours on end with a load of heavy luggage? What strangely sane children you have. I can’t imagine where they’ve learned it.

79

I understand you were shocked. I do wonder however how you would have reacted to her throwing hot coffee at my face. Or trying to kick me precisely in the place where I’d had surgery the day before. Or biting me in the back until I bled in several spots. Or to the death threats (caught on my smartphone, by the way) she uttered in front of my daughters while trying to get them on board with it (“Wouldn’t it be better if that filthy ***** were dead and it was just the three of us ?”).

And you know, she’s been talking behind my back since the very first days. Soon after I met her, she made me swear that no third person should ever be told about our arguments. I soon understood why : this promise only applied to me, as I could hear calling her friends and family and insult me at the slightest problem within days of making it. I foolishly kept my word for a decade and a half, because that’s the way I was brought up : keep your word and honour your responsibilities and duties towards others. But when she started saying that she was going to come to my workplace and “set the record straight about me” with my coworkers, I pre-empted the threat and told them about the situation. One of my colleagues has agreed to take care an envelope in my desk containing evidence if something bad ever happens to me.

The point is her toxicity has rubbed off on me over the years. And I need to put a stop to it. I used to be better than that.

I had a look at my youngest daughter’s homeworks earlier today and she sat on my lap for half an hour being a playful 9-year old. We’ve talked and they don’t seem unhappy, although they still look behind their back before hugging me to make sure that their mother isn’t looking.

80

So why have you stayed in the relationship as is so long? Given how you two seem to feel about each other I cannot imagine it’s for the amazing sex, doubt there is any of that. For the kids? Inertia?

You have stuck it out with a woman who by your description at least is … a bit disturbed. There must be something that has kept you there, some positive about her or some need that she meets or that you hold out hope she will meet. Do you still love her?