Would you say that to a woman in an abusive relationship?
Shit, dude, I would’ve left her and taken out a restraining order and filed for full custody. That may seem extreme, but things are not complicated in this area: physical abuse has zero place, ZERO PLACE, in a relationship.
Add all the other examples you gave me, and I no longer think you should consider divorce, I’m convinced (barring some really weird information like that you’re lying, which I don’t think is likely) that you need to get the fuck out of there. Do you need help finding resources? Is there any reason not to get the fuck out of there?
IDK, this thread has devolved into ‘my horrible marriage’ instead of ‘I’m having an issue with my children’.
OP, what really is the problem you’re having?
Are you looking for validation to end your marriage? If what you say about her is true, I wouldn’t live there and I certainly wouldn’t leave my children with such an abusive person. YMMV.
If you simply need advice on teen girls there is a lot of help to be had on this board. Several people have/had and raised teens. So there’s that.
It’s not your children’s fault that they live with parents who are not united and civil. Don’t blame them for the bad vacation.
True, it’s not their fault and I do regret feeling that way. And starting this thread for that matter, but it was yesterday, the events still very fresh in my memory and I was tired from getting little sleep in the past week.
So, why did I stay ? A mixture of cowardice, inertia, delusion that things would get better and an inflated sense of duty towards others (you just don’t play with people’s feelings). As I said above my parents brought me up with notions of keeping your word and respecting others people. But I’m also by nature a rather withdrawn person and the combination of these two elements makes me often unwilling to stand up for myself.
But I’m thinking of the best way of getting the **** out of here. Apart from the practical problems (get a separate bank account first then find a flat or the other way around, things like that…), I’m really concerned about the effect it’ll have on my daughters, especially since my leaving, and every mistake I may make, will be exploited for all its worth by their mother to confirm her story of the evil, deadbeat dad. I already had a non-binding talk with a lawyer earlier this year which cleared up a few important points, but it’s not like I have any experience with this sort of situation (first marriage and I never had these sort of issues with my previous relationships, even the ones that were not optimal).
To stay true to the analogy, to a woman who was telling a public board that they were staying with someone who was abusing them, yes I’d be asking her why. What keeps her there?
Please note such a question, asked of the hypothetical woman or of this man, is not victim blaming, it is trying to get beyond a superficial understanding of the relationship and the dynamic.
I wouldn’t imagine that I know what is the best course for the op, for who he is and who he wants to be, but I wish him luck, for his sake and for the sake of his children.
Oh really? You would posit “There must be something that has kept you there, some positive about [him] or some need that [he] meets or that you hold out hope [he] will meet.” to an abused wife? Please tell me about the good things in your spouse that draws blood and openly wishes for your death.
CarnalK, I think you may be misunderstanding the utility of this question. It’s not meant to excuse the abuser by pointing out the good aspects of his/her personality, it’s meant to ask the abused person to identify what aspects of the relationship are keeping them in it. That’s immensely useful information, and critical in the planning steps of leaving the relationship. Is it money? Open up your own account and start building up savings. Is it feeling loved? Start building up an emotional support group. Is it fear of change? Ask yourself about what ways life without this person could possibly be worse than the current situation.
mischievous gets what you obviously have no comprehension about.
People remain in abusive and even simply bad/dysfunctional relationships for many reasons. Likely there are as many different precise answers to the question I asked as there are those relationships.
Still there are, to my understanding, some common themes. Many people who are abused do indeed still love the person who is abusing them. His response is pretty much the textbook collection missing only the financial dependence/security item, inclusive of the fear of leaving, and the hope/delusion that things would get better eventually giving him those things that he needs, even to the being worried about some potential negative impact on the kids.
It is to his credit that he has come around to realizing that the current circumstance is no good for his kids and pulled himself back from blaming them and disliking them.
The post before mine was describing abuse, physical as well as emotional. That leaves the realm of marriage therapy/couples counseling as an option. Few abusers are both willing and able to change. He needs to identify the barriers to his leaving, including the positive feelings he may have had or continues to have for her, the needs she fulfills or he holds out hope for her to fulfill, in order to address those barriers.
OP,
You need to separate your feelings about your wife from your relationship with your daughters.
You have written things that indicate you hate your wife. “Her only passion in life is sucking the pleasure out of everything other people like with a mixture of scorn, threats and self-pity.” There’s no missing the venom in that statement. Maybe you’re the horrible person, misinterpreting what your wife does, or maybe you’re right and she’s the evil one, but in either case why are you two together?
Your daughters, on the other hand – you’re criticizing them for not acting the way you want them to. But consider the situation:
– Surely they recognize, if only subconsciously, the poisonous nature of their parents’ relationship. That can’t be easy to live with. Perhaps part of their disengagement is an attempt to avoid further conflict, or at least not have to listen to it.
– You are upset that they’re not doing what YOU want. But it would seem that, at least in part, they are doing what ONE of their parents wants them to. You say your wife “egged on” a daughter to skip the trip to grandma. Mom seems to have condoned, or even encouraged, the changes from your plans for London. If their parents give conflicting advice, can you blame the girls for making what you consider the wrong choices?
– If you’re right about your wife’s personality, she’s probably using your daughters as weapons in her battle with you. All you’re doing by placing so much blame on the girls is adding to the damage.
If you take away the disagreements with your wife, all you’ve really got from the London trip is a couple of young girls who like to play games on their phones and don’t get a kick out of walking around looking at monuments and museum exhibits. That’s no reason to despise them.
My wife and her sister used to go on long car trips with their mom and grandma. They’d spend the whole time with their noses in books (very much pre-cellphone era). Whenever Mom or Grandma would insist they look up to admire some sight, they’d sigh: “Another beautiful view.”
They were not horrible children, and they turned into wonderful adults. They were just being kids – and individuals. The interests you mentioned for yourself – at least within the limitations of the London visit – are not universal. You sneered, typographically, at their interest in a hip-hop “show,” but just because they like different music than you do doesn’t mean they’re wrong and you’re right.
Whether you can or should try to save the toxic relationship you have with your wife, I don’t know. But it’s certain you will permanently damage your relationship with your daughters if you allow the situation to continue as it is.
You’ve already used words to describe them that suggest you think it may be too late, but I don’t think so. If they weren’t being encouraged by their mom to reject your plans, if they weren’t enduring what I must assume are obvious signs of their parents’ hatred for each other, if they weren’t being trampled over by the fighting between the two of you, you would hopefully be able to see them as normal girls … and they might have a chance to develop a loving relationship with you.
Wow, this sounds like a near perfect human and soul mate. If I were you I’d stay with her forever, or at least until she killed me.
My parents “stayed together for the kids” and me and my sister now as adults wish they hadn’t. They mellowed out in their old age, but seeing their fights and living with that tension as kids had numerous negatives effects on us. Yes, the shock of the divorce will cause some problems. But if they have happier, healthier parents in the long run, they will be better off.