Some facts first: 29 year old white guy, British, EU resident, no criminal record, don’t speak Swedish.
A bit more qualitative info: I work in central government (Dept of Education) at a junior manager level, I have an education level equivalent to the end of high school (secondary school here - have A levels but no degree), am toying with the idea of doing a masters degree, only speak English, have no dependents or anyone moving with me, have property in the UK and would probably want to rent in Sweden for the time being if I did move, and given that I live in London couldn’t really imagine living anywhere other than the biggest city you have (so Stockholm). I’ve been to Sweden twice and intend to visit many more times before I consider this seriously, but so far I love everything about it and dislike nothing. I have some Swedish friends too so have some points of reference from other natives. I’ve never lived outside of the UK before.
Right, now the pre-amble is out of the way - I love everything I’ve come to know about Sweden. The work ethic, the people, the property prices (!), the men (!!!), the culture, the exercise ethic - hell, even the weather isn’t too bad.
It’s very pie in the sky at the moment, but I’m seriously thinking long term about moving to Sweden, even if it’s just for a while to see what it’s like. I’m completely open to the idea of learning Swedish even though it’s supposed to be quite difficult, but have been assured you can get by without it. I think at the moment the biggest barrier is the fact that I don’t have any tertiary education, but as I said I’m thinking of doing a masters so hopefully that will be remedied in due course. I don’t know what I would do if I moved work wise as I don’t think I could get a government job, but you never know. More realistically I’d probably have to move into something completely different, and don’t mind starting nearer the bottom if that’s what it takes.
So, any advice/tips/questions you would ask/give to a prospective immigrant?
Well before You do anything else You should take a trip to Stockholm and check it out.
I know that you have been to Little London before and that you loved it. But in comparison, Stockholm is…Quite gay.
First thing I think of when I think of Stockholm is that it’s really hard to find decent rental apartments in decent areas. Most of my buddies who live there have “traded” up from larger places in the suburbs to smaller ones closer to d/t. Or have just paid quite the bit of money for someone to hand over their contract (which is illegal, but everyone looks between the fingers on it).
Well that might make it seem like I don’t like Stockholm. I do! Quite a lot actually and love visiting from time to time (it’s been too long now, but such is life).
It’s just that the housing thing has been the biggest hassle for most of the people I know who have moved there.
I’ve visited Goteborg twice and it’s a bit too much on the small side for me. I could probably live there if I knew it was only for a while, but I couldn’t see myself settling down there. It is a very pretty town though, I like it a lot.
Worm - no I haven’t actually been to Stockholm yet, but rest assured will be ticking it off the to do list this year (if all goes well, if not, next year).
No, Illumi, no! You’re moving to beautiful wintry Niigata, remember? The prefecture has a little over the metropolitan population of Stockholm, so it’s nice and ur…
Ah, who am I kidding, I live at least an hour from the nearest decent-sized city, and even that is pretty damn tiny. Doesn’t mean I don’t absolutely love it and expect you to, too.
My dear friend Esa tells me that all Swedish men are invariably and incurably homosexual*, which is good news for you. Apparently that is why all the Swedish women have to import their men from manly Finland. He may be biased, though.
Oh, and I would also like to know what Belgium has to do with Sweden. :dubious:
ETA: *I must add, that I have never actually met a heterosexual Swedish man. But, in all fairness, I haven’t really looked for one, either. They may or may not exist.
I’m afraid I will have to dissapoint you both, or maybe my just-became-dad friends are still hiding in the closet?
I’ll have to discuss it with them when we’ll soak naked in a hot-tub and wooden sauna, while daring each other to jump into the lake and drinking way to much beer and other assorted alcohol.
That’s if I make it to Sweden in March, that is
An other thing to check into would be TAXES! I’m not sure how high the taxes are in the UK but they’re probably quite the bit higher in Sweden. VAT is about 20% and the wage-tax 30-50%.
You are most welcome. One thing you definitely should do is try to learn Swedish. Everyone will talk English with you like it were their second language (or wished it was), which probably is a good thing for a weekend or so, but after a couple of years you’ll regret taking the easy road, because Swedes naturally switch to Swedish after a couple of beers, and the old lady at the counter won’t understand you, and several good collegues and nice acquaintances won’t talk to you at all because it makes them feel uncomfortable to talk English when other Swedes are listening, like they were auditioning or something.
On the other hand, if you try to learn Swedish, and try to speak Swedish, most Swedes will be very polite and talk English to you, but the company as such will mostly speak Swedish with each others, conversations you won’t miss out on, and you will more easily get to know people.
So you should try to learn Swedish, and encourage people to talk Swedish to you, to learn the language because it will make your stay easier and richer.
Gothenburg, or Göteborg, is a wonderful town will wonderful people. It’s problably the nicest town to stay in, in Sweden, beacuse the people are great. Haven’t lived there myself, but been there several times, and have friend who live there.
The Malmoe, Malmö, region might be the most dynamic region in Sweden right know, close to Köpenhamn - which is a great town with great people, and I would guess a region with lots of job opportunities.
But you can’t go wrong with Stockholm, it is the capital in every sense of the word. I lived there for some years, but do not live there anymore; to me it’s more of a Illuminatiprimus-kind of town, than Wakinyan-with-three-kids-kind of town.
Problem is, of course, it’s very difficult to get a flat there, without contacts/lots of money.
Wait, you have the equivalent of HS, and you’re contemplating a master’s? Don’t you have to have at least a three year pass bachelor’s degree first?
I’d think you’d want to get comfortable in the language first though. From what I’ve read, Swedish isn’t too difficult for English speakers. It doesn’t have a horrendous plethora of inflectional endings like German does, though I having learned German am always quick to point out that the complexities of grammar amount to nothing more than a bit of additional memorization, and are certainly not Raketenwissenschaft. Secondly, is England not cold and grey enough for you? Hah! A little joke. :D. Seriously, though, if I were your position having the right to move and work anywhere in the E.U. I would consider Denmark if I had to choose a Scandinavian country, just because it’s handier with regard to reaching other countries in Europe.
Regarding speaking Swedish - if I decided to move I would probably spend some time in the UK learning it beforehand, and then promptly taking the Swedish-for-immigrants classes the Swedish government provides (although I’ve read the quality of them is a bit variable). I can’t imagine living in a foreign country (even if it was only short term) and not learn their language, you’d miss out loads of stuff that way.
I keep hearing lots of good things about Malmo so might visit there too to scope it out. It’s supposed to be a pretty good place to live in its own right and then of course it’s a quick trip across the Oresund to Copenhagen. I think in terms of town size it doesn’t actually have to be that big a place, because if the people are nice and there are enough things to do you don’t need a city to be huge. London is massive but most of the time I stick to where I live and a few other places, whereas somewhere like Goteborg is smaller but very nice in its entirety.
With regard to taxes, it’s a myth that the UK has lower taxes compared to Europe, we actually get bled quite a lot here. Furthermore, unless you’re at the very bottom of the social ladder (or in hospital) it’s virtually impossible to access any kind of government grants or benefits, whereas from what I hear in Sweden pretty much everyone qualifies for some kind of financial aid in the form of either training, child care assistance, health etc. I’m getting kind of fed up of demands from the tax man going up much faster than services the government provides, and I get the impression it’s much better in Sweden (sure it’s not perfect, and there may be some “grass is greener” syndrome here).
Worm - rest assured I don’t think all Swedish men are gay, so my expectations are set appropriately on that score.
I’ll agree with the Göteborg recommendation. It’s practically impossible to find a place for rent in Stockholm, and Göteborg is just the nicer place. Of course, you appear to like big cities while I detest them so we may not see eye to eye on this one; the notion of Göteborg being too small is utterly alien to me.
You will get by with English. Swedish is pretty difficult to learn, but it’s difficult in the same way that German is difficult; loads of strange rules to learn but you manage without them. If your aim is communicating rather than hold a physiology class, it shouldn’t be much of a problem.
If you come to Malmö, feel free to poke me. I can show you around what there is to show and provide you with a place to crash.
Wow - thanks Priceguy! I will probably take you up on that offer (and unlike Seodoa I didn’t see any subtext to that offer )
You see, I’m not actually sure I do like big cities. London is like a country all of its own, and like I said I only go to certain bits of it. One of the things that makes a place to live are your friends and activities to do, and whilst London has a vast amount of the latter it can be quite hard to find the former (everyone is so busy rushing around and insultating themselves from outside intrusions it can be very hard to make a connection). The idea of moving somewhere smaller in absolute terms, but with more opportunities to do things and get to know people, is very welcome. I’d miss London, and it’s set the tone for what I expect normal to be (I couldn’t live in the countryside, no way no how), but having visited other large cities around the world I’m clear it’s the people, not the buildings, that make it what it is.
Anyway, even if I do decide to move it’s not like it has to be permanent - if I don’t like it I can always move back to the UK (or indeed, somewhere else).
Sorry, I should have been clearer. I spent a semester in Belgium when I did my undergrad and had some Master courses. I loved getting away for a while and probably should have stayed longer.
Yes, you need to check out other places than Stockholm. I’m currently looking for a job in Sweden and am mostly aiming for the Öresund region (around Malmö), but wouldn’t mind moving to Göteborg either.
It’s just too much of a bitch to get a decent place in Stockholm (unless I land a 2007-style investment bank job, which I won’t).
Yes I did, staying with ViktorWolf and his family (in case it’s not obvious we know each other outside of the Dope ) near Goteborg. As I said I’ve heard lots of good things about Malmo so will check it out, but will similarly need to do Stockholm as well.
Hey - maybe we can both move to Goteborg and be room mates, that’d be cool no?
