I'm thinking about trying out Scientology. What's your experience with the org?

[ralph124c]

Well, $cientology has been around for about 50 years, by now, we ought to see results: Hubbard claimed that a “clear” was related to a normal person, as a normal human was related to someone severely insane. So a "clear’ should be a hi-IQ. high achieving human, with multiple talents. We haven’t seen any!
Two: Hubbard claimed that children raised by $cientology methods would be superior in sports-no evidence of this.
Third: Hubbard claimed that the "truths’ of $cientology would be evident to mankind-and that would lead to mass conversion-hasn’t happened.
What are we to conclude? Of course, one could make the excuse that his followers misapplied his methods-but all accounts are that hubbard was a paranoid, vindictive liar, with no regard for truth.
I rest my case.

[Loach]

@Mosier

Strange, radical new religions tend to get demonized whenever they emerge, and as far as I know Scientology is the strangest, most radical new religion out there. That doesn’t mean you should jump in blindfolded, but if you’re willing to sell yourself out to a goofy religion (and they’re all goofy), why not one that people you admire belong to?

In my eyes there is a big difference between this cult and other religions. Go into a Catholic or Protestant church. Go see a Muslim or a Buddist or a Hindu. Ask about their religion. They will tell you all about it. There might be too much information to digest at once but there is no hidden secrets (unless you believe the Davinci Code) Go to a Scientologist and you get tap dancing. You get self actualization and vitamins. You get Tom Cruise talking about Headology like he is a scientist instead of the fact that he is speaking of his religious beliefs. You don’t hear about what the religion is really about until you pay a lot of money. Add to that the scare tactics, the army of lawyers, the private investigators… It is not just another religion.

[Loach]

@Mosier

Isn’t there a biblical precedent for not fraternizing with non-Christians?

Also, I’m unaware of any Scientology directive to “cut yourself off” from anyone. Are you sure that really happens? I suspect it’s more like a little nudge toward the idea of sticking where you belong (just like every other religion) rather than a forced exile.

Have you seen the clip of the BBC reporter losing it while doing an interview with a Scientologist? Here is an article where he explains what happened and what led up to the outburst. Here is one quote from the article:

Take “Rosemary”, who is an ordinary mum and lives in England. She had two children and one died. Her surviving daughter was also her best friend. Then her daughter joined Scientology and her mother saw less and less of her.

Almost two years ago she received a “disconnect” - a letter cutting her mother out of her life totally.

Rosemary received no Christmas cards, no birthday cards, no Mother’s Day cards.

Rosemary said Scientology was a cult. It was one of the most moving and shocking interviews I have ever done.

Out of the blue, three hours after we left, her daughter came round for the first time in almost two years seeking a reconciliation. The next day she begged her mum not to use the interview. So we won’t.

It is not the first such account I have heard.

[Mosier]

@Loach

Have you seen the clip of the BBC reporter losing it while doing an interview with a Scientologist?

It is not the first such account I have heard.

I’m not one to jump on testimonial bandwagons, but even if I were, I bet I could offer an example of someone who was clearly not cut off from their friends and family for every example you could offer of someone who was.

You’ve got to approach these things with some skepticism. All that stuff you hear about Mormon converts being forced to cut their family ties sounds pretty similar to the things we hear about Scientology requiring the same thing, but we only hear about it in “exclusive interviews” and testimonials.

Meanwhile, Mormons and Scientologists are out there breeding and making families with regular old infidels like us. You see them every day, and you can’t tell those crazies from Islamic or Christian crazies.

It’s all the same, in my opinion.

[Voyager]

@Mosier

Meanwhile, Mormons and Scientologists are out there breeding and making families with regular old infidels like us. You see them every day, and you can’t tell those crazies from Islamic or Christian crazies.

Oh really? My daughter had lots of Mormon friends, and they were all heavily, heavily pressured to only date other Mormons. The church had dances to encourage this. I’m not saying there is anything wrong with this, and they’re hardly the first religion to do this. At least in elementary and junior high, there was no attempt to isolate Mormon kids from non-Mormon kids. In high school they were spending a lot of time on religion classes, so they grew apart a bit. We also knew a convert, and there was no attempt to isolate him from his family.

[Mosier]

@Voyager

Oh really? My daughter had lots of Mormon friends, and they were all heavily, heavily pressured to only date other Mormons. The church had dances to encourage this. I’m not saying there is anything wrong with this, and they’re hardly the first religion to do this. At least in elementary and junior high, there was no attempt to isolate Mormon kids from non-Mormon kids. In high school they were spending a lot of time on religion classes, so they grew apart a bit. We also knew a convert, and there was no attempt to isolate him from his family.

I don’t want to be misunderstood here. I agree with you. I’m saying that the testimonials and interviews of Mormons being forced to abandon their friends and families is as nonsensical as the Scientologist claims of the same variety.

[BluePitbull]

Seems like anyone can find it on Wikipedia or Google. I would think it would be pointless

[mswas]

My old roommate was a Scientologist, the entire time I knew him he was a Scientologist. If they cut him off from his old friends how would he recruit them?

[Czarcasm]

@mswas

My old roommate was a Scientologist, the entire time I knew him he was a Scientologist. If they cut him off from his old friends how would he recruit them?

Much the same way that some people who get into Amway and other MLM businesses keep their friends, but follow instructions to use these “friendships” .

[Mosier]

Can you think of a religion that DOESN’T encourage their members to use their friendships as a missionary tool? I can’t. At least not one that was invented outside of Tibet.

[Arnold_Winkelried]

Mosier: Unitarian Universalism
Wikipedia article
Unitarian Universalist Association

[DocCathode]

@Mosier

Can you think of a religion that DOESN’T encourage their members to use their friendships as a missionary tool? I can’t. At least not one that was invented outside of Tibet.

Judaism. Since being a Jew is so tough (over 600 commandments to keep ya know), proseltyzing is discouraged. It’s considered better to leave somebody a righteous ham-eating gentile, than to convert them to a sinning ham-eating Jew.

[Voyager]

@Mosier

I don’t want to be misunderstood here. I agree with you. I’m saying that the testimonials and interviews of Mormons being forced to abandon their friends and families is as nonsensical as the Scientologist claims of the same variety.

Well, as I said upthread, my friend’s brother cut off communication with his family at the urging of Scientolology. So in my experience Mormon’s don’t and Scientologist do. Plus, IIRC, my girlfriend’s parents had to put the hammer down on the assholes. I’m not at all sure that they wouldn’t have kept him isolated if he was of age, but I don’t think even religions can get away with keeping an underage kid from his parents.

[Annie-Xmas]

Mormon vs. Scientology

Osmond vs. Cruise

Case Closed.

[An_Arky]

@Mosier

Can you think of a religion that DOESN’T encourage their members to use their friendships as a missionary tool? I can’t. At least not one that was invented outside of Tibet.

Society of Friends, or Quakers, don’t do that crap.

Really, what is the purpose of saying “so what, other religions do this stuff, too?” It’s patently obvious to anyone but a clam that the CO$ uses incredibly aggressive tactics to recruit and isolate it’s “members”. Whether or not other religions do it isn’t the point here. The CO$ is being singled out for being particularly aggressive in this regard, for not revealing its doctrine except for large cash payments, and ruining peoples’ lives. None of the organized religions do this to the extent that Scientology does.

Always attack, never defend, right? :dubious:

[CalMeacham]

Well, $cientology has been around for about 50 years, by now, we ought to see results: Hubbard claimed that a “clear” was related to a normal person, as a normal human was related to someone severely insane. So a "clear’ should be a hi-IQ. high achieving human, with multiple talents. We haven’t seen any!

Back in the 1950s, when it was still “Dianetics”, and he hadn’t yet come up with “SCientology”, Hubbard claimed to have had the first “Clear”, and publicly presented him at a large meeting of the Faithful (and, I guess, reporters). It was pitiful. This freed-from-engram human prodigy couldn’t answer questions (like"What color tie is Ron wearing?", when Hubbard’s back was turned) or give any evidence of greater-than-human functioning. They dropped him like a hot rock and never brought it up again, and never showcased another “Clear”. You can read about it in bios like “THe Bare-Faced Messiah”.

[CalMeacham]

From this site: http://www.xenu-directory.net/practices/clear1.html

(and a great many others)

With his book, Dianetics, a best-seller, Ron Hubbard was America’s new guru. In August 1950, at a lecture hall in Los Angeles he presented to a crowd of 6,000 the first person to be what he called a ‘clear’. She was a student called Sonya Bianca. As a clear, she was supposed to have total recall.

JEAN COX: “Various members of the audience called questions at her. Could she remember what was said on page 217 of her physics textbook? She couldn’t. Could she remember what she had for breakfast on the morning of August 17, 1946? She couldn’t. Then various people called out for Hubbard to turn his back on her and see if she could remember the colour of his tie. She couldn’t. At that moment, the whole business sort of collapsed. People started leaving the auditorium.”

Suddenly Hubbard was in trouble. He was accused of being a con-man and Dianetics a form of hypnotism., a technique at which he was so expert.

[CalMeacham]

Ah – Here’s the text of Miller’s "The Bare-Faced Messiah:

California, ever enchanted by fads and facile philosophies, was the natural habitat of Dianetics and it was to California that Hubbard returned in triumph at the beginning of August 1950, to be feted by joyful Dianeticists waiting to meet him at Los Angeles airport. Two years earlier, he had left as a penniless pulp fiction author; now he was back as a celebrity with a book firmly lodged at the top of every bestseller list and a growing legion of followers who truly believed him to be a genius.

He had a busy schedule ahead: apart from personal appearances and interviews, he was to lecture at the newly-formed Hubbard Dianetic Research Foundation of California, all the big bookstores wanted him for signing sessions and, most important of all, he was to attend a rally on Thursday 10 August at the Shrine Auditorium. It promised to be Dianetics’ finest hour, for on that evening the identity of the world’s first ‘clear’ was to be announced.

The Shrine was a vast, mosque-like building with white stucco castellated walls and a dome in each corner, unforgettably characterized by the music critic of the LA Times as being of the ‘neo-penal Bagdad’ school of architecture. Built in 1925 by the Al Malaikah Temple, it was the largest auditorium in Los Angeles and could seat nearly 6500 people under a swooping ceiling designed to resemble the roof of a tent. When the Hubbard Dianetic Research Foundation booked it for the meeting on 10 August, few people expected more than half the seats to be filled.
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Arthur Jean Cox, the young teletype operator who had met Hubbard at the Los Angeles Science Fantasy Society, left early for the meeting by streetcar and was surprised how crowded it was. ‘More and more people got on at every stop,’ he said. ‘I couldn’t believe that everyone was going to the meeting but when we arrived at the Shrine on Royal Street, everyone got off. I was absolutely amazed. By the time I got inside there were only a few seats left.’[1]

The audience was predominantly young, noisy and good-humoured. Many people carried well-thumbed copies of ‘The Book’, in the hope of getting them signed by Hubbard, and there was much speculation about ‘the world’s first clear’ and what he or she would be able to do. Dozens of newspapers and magazines, including Life, had sent reporters and photographers to cover the event and those cynics who had predicted a sea of empty seats looked on in astonishment as even the aisles began to fill.

When L. Ron Hubbard walked on to the stage, followed by A. E. van Vogt, whom he had recently recruited, and other directors of the Foundation, there was a spontaneous roar from the audience, followed by applause and cheering that continued for several minutes. Hubbard, totally assured and relaxed, smiled broadly as he looked around the packed auditorium and finally held up his hands for silence.

The meeting opened with Hubbard demonstrating Dianetic techniques. With the help of a pretty blonde, he showed how to induce Dianetic reverie and then he ‘run a grief incident’ on a girl called Marcia. While the audience obligingly responded when Hubbard spread his arms for applause at the end of each demonstration, it all seemed a little too well rehearsed and there was a murmur of approval when someone stood up in the audience and called out: ‘Ladies and gentlemen, somehow I can’t help but feel that all this has been pre-arranged.’

Immediately people began shouting for Hubbard to demonstrate on someone from the audience and when a young man jumped on to the piano in the orchestra pit, a chant went up: ‘Take him! Take him!’ Hubbard, not in the least flustered by this turn of events, invited him up on to the stage. The young man introduced himself as an actor whose father had studied with Freud, which fortuitously gave Hubbard the opportunity of mentioning his own connection with the great analyst, through his old friend ‘Snake’ Thompson.

Sitting on facing chairs at the front of the stage, Hubbard made a determined attempt to audit the man, but he proved an unresponsive subject, answering almost every question in the negative. The audience soon became bored and restless and began calling, ‘Throw him out, throw him out!’ Hubbard, perhaps somewhat relieved, shook the man’s hand and he stepped down.

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1. Interview with Cox and letter to Martin Gardner, 30 April 1952
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The atmosphere throughout had remained perfectly cordial, even if the shouted comments from the audience were increasingly irreverent. When Hubbard was explaining the multitude of mental and physical benefits arising from successful auditing, someone yelled, ‘Are your cavities filling up?’ and caused a good deal of laughter.

As the highlight of the evening approached, there was a palpable sense of excitement and anticipation in the packed hall. A hush descended on the audience when at last Hubbard stepped up to the microphone to introduce the ‘world’s first clear’. She was, he said, a young woman by the name of Sonya Bianca, a physics major and pianist from Boston. Among her many newly acquired attributes, he claimed she had ‘full and perfect recall of every moment of her life’, which she would be happy to demonstrate. He turned slowly to the wings on one side of the stage and said: ‘Will you come out now please, Sonya?’

The audience erupted once more in applause as a thin, obviously nervous, girl stepped out of the wings and into a spotlight which followed her to centre stage, where she was embraced by Hubbard. In a tremulous voice she told the meeting that Dianetics had cleared up her sinus trouble and cured her ‘strange and embarrassing’ allergy to pain. ‘For days after I came in contact with paint I had a painful itching in my eyebrows,’ she stammered. ‘Now both conditions have cleared up and I feel like a million dollars.’ She answered a few routine questions from Hubbard, who then made the mistake of inviting questions from the audience: they had clearly been expecting rather more spectacular revelations.

‘What did you have for breakfast on October 3 1942?’ somebody yelled. Miss Bianca understandably looked somewhat startled, blinked in the lights and shook her head. ‘What’s on page 122 of Dianetics, The Modern Science of Mental Health?’ someone else asked. Miss Bianca opened her mouth but no words came out. Similar questions came thick and fast, amid much derisive laughter. Many in the audience took pity on the wretched girl and tried to put easier questions, but she was so terrified that she could not even remember simple formulae in physics, her own subject.

As people began getting up and walking out of the auditorium, one man noticed that Hubbard had momentarily turned his back on the girl and shouted, ‘OK, what colour necktie is Mr Hubbard wearing?’ The world’s first ‘clear’ screwed up her face in a frantic effort to remember, stared into the hostile blackness of the auditorium, then hung her head in misery. It was an awful moment.

Hubbard, sweat glistening in beads on his forehead, stepped forward and brought the demonstration swiftly to an end. Quickwitted as always, he proffered an explanation for Miss Bianca’s
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impressive lapses of memory. The problem, Dianetically speaking, was that when he called her forward, asking her to come out ‘now’, the ‘now’ had frozen her in ‘present time’ and blocked her total recall. It was not particularly convincing, but it was the best he could do in the circumstances.

Forrie Ackerman, who was at the Shrine that night to see his client perform, summed up the feelings of many people who were there: ‘I was somewhat disappointed not to see a vibrant woman in command of herself and situation. She certainly was not my idea of a “clear”.’[2]

It would be some time before Hubbard produced another ‘Clear’ although his followers, in their enthusiasm, would frequently declare that their own protégés had reached that blissful state. One of these was a fifteen-year-old girl of such remarkable powers that she was said to have made her bad teeth fall out and grown new teeth in their place.[3] But no one suggested presenting her at a public meeting.

http://www.cs.cmu.edu/afs/cs/usr/dst/www/Library/Shelf/miller/bfm10.htm

[Mosier]

@An Arky

Really, what is the purpose of saying “so what, other religions do this stuff, too?” It’s patently obvious to anyone but a clam that the CO$ uses incredibly aggressive tactics to recruit and isolate it’s “members”. Whether or not other religions do it isn’t the point here. The CO$ is being singled out for being particularly aggressive in this regard, for not revealing its doctrine except for large cash payments, and ruining peoples’ lives. None of the organized religions do this to the extent that Scientology does.

In my experience, the COS isn’t particularly aggressive in separating their members from their friends and families. I’m going to deny your assertion that they are, and I’m not a clam.

The purpose of saying “so what, other religions do this stuff too” is to address the fact that the OP seems to be looking for a religion, and the platform most of you are using to discourage that is “they’ll cut you off from your family,” which just isn’t true.

Don’t join the religion because it’s a bunch of crackpot crazies and you’ll end up broke, NOT because they’ll lock you in a cell and make you hate your mother. Can’t you recognize sensationalism when Tom Cruise is all over the papers, and they’re whispering that he made the whole baby thing up because he didn’t let reporters take pictures of her for a few days? Seriously, people…

[Malthus]

@Mosier

Can you think of a religion that DOESN’T encourage their members to use their friendships as a missionary tool? I can’t. At least not one that was invented outside of Tibet.

Judaism.