I'm thinking of becoming an EU citizen (Belgium)

In My Humble Opinion
1

So I’ll put in my plan of action here, and if you don’t want to read my personal reasons for my dillema, then just skip it:

Okay, first the minimum background. I like living in Europe, for a variety of reasons (see below) I live here now and want to continue to do so. But my current BA isn’t one that is in demand almost anywhere I can imagine, so I need to go back to school for some length of time. I don’t feel particularly good about it, but the result would be nice:

Get a TESOL certificate, and teach English in Belgium for a year. Then do my new degree in Belgium in Dutch. I don’t speak dutch, but I know German, and my mother tongue is English. I also understand a great degree of Danish. I can already read dutch websites. My degree would be an engineering-type degree, and I’ve already picked it out. Using this particular uni, I would also be able to get a loan from home to complete the studies there without working. The good thing about all of this is that Belgium offers citizenships after only 3 years of residency. Also I’m 25. Upon completion I’d have another language under my belt, and a new degree and another passport. The US and Belgium appear to accept dual-nationalities, so I don’t think I’d have to give anything up in that respect.

Some rational thought behind all of this. I have pretty much decided that I need to get an IT-related degree. I’m a computer dork, and computer-related stuff comes easy to me. I have no idea why I never did it before. I enjoy the geekery surrounding computers and I really love understanding new technology. Plus the idea of playing with some serious toys sounds good too! Being a student is a good way to guarantee that I’ll be able to stay legally for the required time.

The big problem here is that I’ll be wasting a year learning the language. But maybe it won’t be a total loss? Maybe I’ll meet the love of my life during the teaching English phase of things.

The other option is to return to America and get any kind of job and try to work my way up through the ranks and make a reputation for myself. I kind of miss America, it’s just that every time I go back, I realize that I belong over here, it seems.

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Now for the details. I’ve been loads of places in America, and I really have no ill will towards the place, but it’s just been a rational decision that I’d be happier here. The only way I can envision myself being happier in America is if I become successful at something. I’ve got the mind of an entrepreneuer, and I’d love to take the chance at doing something that really impacted other people. If I just went straight home, then I’d have a much greater chance at doing that. Or to put it another way, I’d have much more motivation to do so.

I lived in New York for a while. I attempted to get a good job with my BA in International Studies there. My language skills were apparently of no use to anyone. I ended up leaving and coming here. I tried over here, (Denmark) to get a job, but I was stopped by work-permit laws. My general desire has always been to get a job here (ideally suited to some kind of career development) and just stick around until I’ve been in one place long enough. Had I gotten one in Denmark, I’d have been around here for 7 years. If I don’t like belgium, I can leave after three. Then I’d have the ability to go to either place.

I like Europe for a lot of reasons though. Life is pretty good here. 4 weeks vacation is the norm. In America I’d end up using all my days throughout the year, most likely. I also like the education system here with regards to kids. A lot of kids here end up being pretty well-rounded, in my opinion. The places where I’d like to live in America seem to be really bad in this area. I wouldn’t want to raise kids in New York either as I don’t like the idolization of money in the town. I don’t like the idea that we are the number one terrorist target. Living in any big city in America seems that way to me. Especially New York. I don’t think there’s much that can be done to prevent it, honestly.

The goal of getting EU citizenship in itself is kind of sad to me. It means dedicating some very important years of my life to basically repeating a part I’m not keen to repeat. I don’t want to go back to college, but I feel that if I don’t I will have left some very good opportunities behind.

I’ve had other ideas too. Go back to America, and try to work my way up. After a few years (let’s say three) then I could go back to Europe and get a job with my experience. But then it seems it could not pan out.

I’ve also though of trying to get into finance so I could make a lot of money. Then I could go and do a lot of things, but the atmosphere doesn’t really suit me.

I also don’t want to tell my parents of the plan to get EU citizenship. My mom wouldn’t be happy, because she always wants me an hour and a half from home at the most. I love my family though, but I don’t want to go back home to MS in any way, shape or form.

Possible cities I might like to live in, in America, would be New York, San Francisco, or maybe Boston. I can imagine that New York would be cool, but then I don’t see myself having a lot of time for myself. I can easily see that in Europe with regards to work-day policies and such.

But then then on the other hand I’ve always been a dreamer. I feel that if I made this move to belgium, then I’d be killing a part inside of me that wanted to be something in this life. I’m not particularly convinced that there’s an afterlife, so I’d like to do something with my life that I can look back on with pride. I see myself getting possibly complacent in the EU. However I also don’t feel myself changing either.

The other possibility would be Spain. I like Spanish people alot, but I also don’t like their idea of family. Families in Spain are not my thing, really.

But mainly, I have a huge desire to get my life going. I want to get a real job and a real life. I just turned 25. I guess that’s not too old, but certainly time to get started. If I went to study some more then I’d simply be putting that off further. That extra year it takes to learn Dutch seems like a deal-breaker.

However, if I were to do the same in America it would take three years to study (5.7 semesters at 17 hours a semester) That’s quite a heavy load for three straight years, plus scheduling conflicts could arrise. It would cost 54,000 dollars in tuition alone. I am debt free, but still. That’s a lot of money. Plus I’d be around a lot of 18-year-olds. In Europe it would be much cheaper, and if I wanted to work there, it would be a better option anyway. These degrees are three years in Europe too, as they don’t involve any other sort of Language or other non-science electives.

So my possible choices seem like this:

Go back home and go to one of my cities of choice. Try to start a career with my current education level. Three years down the road where can I be? I can be stuck in a rut as I am now. Or I can possibly be successful. But I’m not sure that is what I want. I’d really only be happy, I think, if I were doing something that truly interested me. And it’s pretty damn hard to bank on success. I don’t exactly have a lot of resources to pull anything off.

Go back home and study IT. Do it for three years and end up deeply in debt. Work for a few years and if I feel like coming back, I can…hopefully.

Go to Belgium and work for a year whilst studying Dutch, and then start in IT. Pay for it with a loan as well. Finish in three years with a new passport and rights to work anywhere in the EU. I’m so sick of trying to find jobs here without the explicit right to work. I won’t do it anymore. That’s one of the only reasons why I pine to work in the US because I won’t have these stupid problems. If I feel like going back to the US, I will simply do so. If only I had made this decision two years ago before I came here…I’d have had no problem then, and I’d also be much further along. I definitely would have done this then. Now I feel it is a bit too late…

On the other hand I could go there and study something in English that isn’t IT related (possibly an MBA or something) and end up with a passport and a higher-level degree. The only reason I’m not for that is that it’s really still avoiding my chances of getting into something that I’m naturally inclined to do. I had a job here in DK essentially as an entry-level IT guy, and it didn’t work out because of the work-visa situation. I’m so sick of this…

So what do you guys think of this plan? I’m not certain that I’ll do it, but if I don’t I feel that I’ll certainly regret it. I really think I need to do it. I definitely have to get in IT. I suppose I’m avoiding the pain of admitting that my previous education seems to be worthless. That combined with the time required seems to be the main problem. The new degree has the added benefit of great job opportunities!

2

I can’t keep all the different factors in your decision straight in my head, but my basic advice is to go for it and try to get EU citizenship. It will open up a whole continent’s worth of job opportunities for you, make you more marketable to American firms, guarantee you health care for the rest of your life, be a great asset to any children should you have any, etc. Three years isn’t that long a time. I’m tempted to follow your plan myself – I’m a year older than you, and looking to “get started” in life too, and would love the benefits of an EU passport. Go for it.

3

Check up on the 3 years of residency. I know that when it comes to fee paying at EU universities, EU fees only apply after 3 years of non-academic residency. I know you’re interested in citizenship and not fees, but check that the same rule doesn’t apply in some way to both.

But other than that, an interesting plan and I hope it all works out for you :slight_smile:

I know what you mean, after a few years of flunking university and building up debts, I suddenly found myself with a baby and an income reduced by loan repayment. I’m now studying part time to try and secure a more positive future for my daughter and myself. As you say, repeating something I’m not keen to repeat. Good luck!

4

I wouldn’t worry about the extra “language” year. It may be a year out of your eventual career, but it’ll be a year of living somewhere new, and that’s an immensely valuable thing - IMO arguably more valuable than the other stuff.

5

Have you looked at schools in Sweden (the educational system is in English), the UK or Ireland?

Why do you think that going to school in Belgium might “cut your wings”? It sounds to me like you’ve actually got a pretty good plan for opening them wide.

Once you’ve got EU nationality, you’ll be able to look at politics-related jobs as well (apart from the EU government, lots of smaller governments have some sort of “external relations office”, from ministries to chambers of commerce). I think that having two degrees in two unrelated fields can be extremely good. And your background gives you a very good hand up for management positions, if/when you’re interested. You say you’re an entrepreneur, we always need more of those (I’m a middle-manager or techie and sick of being told “oh my, you should start your own business!” no, I shouldn’t, cos I’d hate it).

6

I’m from Canada and I just moved to Ireland in October. I would agree with Rodgers, that if being an EU citizen is what you want, then go for it.

Pushkin makes a good point about EU unniversities, though: until you have residence, you will likely have to pay international fees. I’m not sure about Belgium, but in Ireland and the UK that comes to about ten times the EU fees. I’m in the same boat myself, and even working full time I can’t afford to go back to school without some hefty scholarships and loans (Canadian ‘international study’ ones at that-- I’m not eligible for most UK/EU ones yet).

I was looking to see if I could find links to the expedited work permit program that Ireland had going for certain professions (among them a lot of IT-related ones), but it looks like they’ve discontinued the program as of December 31. Boo.

Though as you may already know, Belgium is in a crunch for IT people right now. Can you get a certificate-level qualification right away? I don’t know if that, lacking any relevant work experience would help, but it might be worth looking into. Right now I’m self-teaching web development in the hopes that that I can parley it into an MCPD and fingers crossed get a job in something other than clerical work. To be honest, I have no idea how feasible such a plan is (I should start my own thread :stuck_out_tongue: ).

If you have language ability, that only improves your chances. Even here in Ireland, there are tons of tech-ish jobs looking for people with other European languages. Some of them aren’t even that strict on the tech requirements. Could you do Dutch tech support? If so, here you go. And there are dozens more like that.

I don’t know if I’d count on teaching english, though. If you went to Eastern Europe then maybe, but it just isn’t that huge a sector for international candidates, given that: a) They can usually count on a steady supply of UK/Irish graduates to fill most of the jobs that do exist, and b) a majority of students in Western Europe learn basic english as part of their regular school programme anyway. I could be wrong about that, though, and you’ve probably looked into it more than I have.

And then, ah, there’s the family connection. I can sympathize. My wife and I have been trying to convince my parents to commit to the promise of a notion of a vague idea that we might someday see them come for a visit. My mother’s response? “Oh, I just never imagined that going to Europe was something a person could really do…” Mind, she was talking about visiting, not living here. :rolleyes:

I think if you want to be here, then you should try everything you can to stay though, honestly. It might sound silly, but I know myself that as someone who grew up in North America, just simply living in Europe did seem like a dream sometimes. Ok, maybe only for a particular kind of person growing up in North America, but I happen to be that kind of person. And so do you, it sounds like.

But actually being here is the only thing that’s going to make it real. Just my opinion, but I would say don’t go back to North America for an extended period if you can help it. I know from my in-laws’ experience that it can be mighty hard to get back again. If you’re working, going to school, etc. in the U.S., you’ll be making connections and getting on with your life, whether you like it or not, and severing all ties to chase a dream sucks more and more the older you get.

I really wish you the best of luck with it.

(Oh, and marry a nice Euro girl if you can. It really speeds the process along. :wink: )

7

I am guessing 3 years at uni does not count as residency - you’ll have a student visa, not a residence visa.

8

Spanish universities don’t have different prices for “local”, “national”, “EU” and “rest of the world”. The admissions process is different, but once in, everybody pays the same. I was stunned when I found out about the pricing schemes in the US.

Mentioning it just to throw a reference point for an EU country with that situation, since dawvee mentioned one with “scaled prices”. That particular school in Belgium may go either way.

In Spain a student’s permit can later be converted into a work permit; if the student had been studying (say, Licanciatura then Doctorado) for the ten years required to apply for permanent residency (less if married to a Spaniard), he’d never need to apply for the work permit. Each country has its own laws and customs, please let’s not give advice based on our local ones when we have NO IDEA what Belgium’s case is!

9

Indeed YMMV, I just thought I’d flag the three years as something to check in case it was anything like the residency status for students in the UK :slight_smile:

10

Was directed more at GomezK, actually. Facts from different places are good… guesswork, not so good, since it’s always based on assumptions.

Assumptions related to the laws of different countries got me and three other people out of work five years ago.

11

After a quick search for international admissions to Belgian universities, the best I could come up with was “you might have to pay more, it depends what you’re studying”, though other sites suggest that the tuition is fixed for everyone, like Nava describes, and that any variation is dependent on the program, not the applicant. Still, the consensus on every site I found was to contact the institutions directly. Of course, that’s always a good idea! :smiley:

12

Belgian Government on Naturalization

It uses the word “residence” so I imagine a student visa would suffice.

This paper gives a good idea on the ease of getting citizenship. It’s certainly the easiest I’ve ever seen anywhere in Europe.

Finally about tuition! In my experience on continental Europe, there is no difference between foreign and EU tuition (except DK which is new).

From the Free University of Brussels website:

There is no mention of foreign application fees. Normally you’d expect to see this in an english language website.

Dunno, hopefully I can manage to simply go there and study dutch, the english-language thing is simply to have an income there, but I could do other things.

13

Really? Good news then, looks like we in the UK like to squeeze our foreign students that little bit more :dubious:

14

I wouldn’t move back to the States. The older you get, the more bogged down in your career and situation you will tend to become, and the harder it will become to emigrate. As for working your way up…how? In what kind of career? If it’s just becoming competent at some job or technical role, U.S. companies overseas tend to hire locally. Or at least, that’s been my impression. The Americans who get sent over to take positions in Europe seem to be executive level personnel who take branch manager jobs, and the like.

15

I know nothing about this but would it be possible to go to a school in the Netherlands? Most people speak english.

http://home.wanadoo.nl/ricks.place/unimain.html