And you believe that describing your opponents as triggered and their points as drivel does anything to further “debate”?
This passive aggressive posting style of yours, where you make unsupported assertions and conclusions based on those false assertions is a perfect example of what a debate does not look like. It’s a habit of yours to do this, and if you see any decline in the willingness to engage in topics, it is rhetoric like what you have to offer that is largely to blame.
What ya gonna do? Racists gonna racist. The line about immigrants breeding like rabbits is horrific but it’s par for the course that the moderator here bend over backward to justify it as leading to greater debate.
This. It’s interesting, to me at least, to see where the mods appear to grok antisemitism quite well, have a large blind spot with regard to misogyny and positively support racism so long as it is polite. The fact that saying that blacks are intellectually inferior is not just tolerated but supported here is crazy. This isn’t a debate topic, especially when driven by sheer racism with the same posters bringing up the same points over and over despite being shown how wrong they are. All “debate” does is send a clear message that this board is hostile to people of color.
I’m on record as saying that speech that has no other obvious intent other than to whip up racial antipathy should be illegal. I think the cited passage is problematic, but one could write something like that once in the context of a debate over immigration, and while I probably would suspect some level of bigotry underlies the comment, I wouldn’t necessarily think that the intent of the language is to stir racial animus.
Meh.
Posters who posts are of the trolling and hateful cloths will get themselves banned soon enough. One warning sooner or later is a small thing.
I think we can handle this being something other than a perfectly safe space. Giving them enough rope to hang themselves is not too much rope to handle. I’d rather them having to read us. Neither will be much impacted but still.
I have many mixed feelings about this. The new poster causing this kerfuffle isn’t even bothering with the usual dog whistle, and while nothing he’s said crosses the line into actual hate speech, IMO, there’s certainly a hateful and xenophobic undertone to all of it.
What I think is deeply unfortunate is that so far, partly as a result of this one new join whose absence would be no loss to the board and who likely may not be back anyway, we have one valued poster on a one-week suspension who is likely not very happy with how he’s been treated, and we have another valued long-time poster threatening to leave. These are not good outcomes.
My own feeling, however, is that some of these posters are unfortunately overreacting, responding to what appears to be the general attitude and mindset of this controversial newbie rather than the things actually said.
Let’s look at “breeding like rabbits” with an open mind. Yes, it’s an ugly sentiment in context, but would I be equally hateful in pointing out that some cultures have big families? Look, I’m on record here as supporting Canada’s generous immigration policies including the recent admissions of tens of thousands of Syrian refugees, and for calling out other countries for not doing the same, proportional to their population (though I do have concerns about proper vetting and, as a general immigration matter, about large numbers that may overwhelm our urban infrastructures). I admire the generosity of private sponsors who have made it possible to relocate so many more needy Syrian refugees than would otherwise have been possible. But is it a sin – must it be forbidden from ever being spoken – that these folks tend to have large families?
The real problem with the “rabbit” comment is that it was a disrespectful way of making that statement and, in context, its implication that these people are a net negative, so the fewer of them, the better. But I don’t see any individual statement as having actually crossed a line, so I can’t agree with LHoD that this should be an “instaban” offense. If it were, I would be fearful of making a perfectly factual statement like I just made above, and that’s not good for healthy discourse. There are also legitimate reasons to criticize immigration policies that have absolutely nothing to do with racism or xenophobia, and we shouldn’t start building precedents that might suppress such discussions.
Threats to leave should be treated the same way as any other extortionate behavior. And four warnings in under a year for a long time poster isn’t the fault of anyone but the poster. Supposedly we have agency concerning our own behavior.
The NYT has an interesting article about trolls and “crybullies” and how they shape online and offline discourse. https://www.nytimes.com/2019/05/30/opinion/online-trolling-empathy.html The SDMB being a very small subset of the internet nonetheless has the same dynamic.
The cost of making this place so very safe from speech that offends some won’t be measured in announced departures but in people just not bothering to check in any more as it is so boring.
The beat downs of these idiots, done without needing to Pittishly insult, is much more entertaining than a chorus of I agrees.
And if we cannot do that then the blame lies with us not them.
LHOD, I would still love to hear your response to my point that you seem to want a debate over Brexit to be conducted without anyone being allowed to articulate the rationale that was the actual reason most Britons voted for it. How does that work?
Word.
And if she supports Brexit (and Brexiteer politicians, who are often odious) because she hopes they will make the UK “more English again”?
Depends what she means by “more English”. If she means more chippies and less Pret a Mangers? Not exactly racist. Foolish, but not racist.
If she means “more White Anglo Saxon again”, then yeah, racist as fuck. And also, I think the Scots, Welsh and Irish might take issue…
Well, that’s your opinion.
I find it either naïve or disingenuous to claim that “Immigrants breed like rabbits” isn’t a nasty, dehumanizing (literally) phrase and does nothing to further your argument. “Immigrants generally have larger families” is far less antagonizing while making the same point without needlessly perpetuating incendiary stereotypes.
Allowing this is a bad policy. It’s at least worthy of a mod note. Yeah, free speech and whatever (though we all know the SDMB doesn’t have to abide by that). People can state things without using notorious, historically insulting language.
Goofus says: “Everyone knows Hollywood and banks are run by Jews.”
Gallant says: “Historically, Jews have had a lot of success in movies and in banking, to a point that seems out of proportion with their percentage of the population.”
One of those is something Alex Jones would say. The other, while lengthier, is more factual and furthers a debate.
(Am I dating myself with that Goofus/Gallant reference? Yeah, probably.)
You may be surprised to note that Goofus and Gallant is still a feature in the Highlights for Children magazine. Except now it’s in full-color and computer-generated rather than drawn by hand.
Seriously, there is “tone policing” and there is a discussion on whether a comment using a phrase historically used as an abusive stereotype should be tolerated without even a mod note.
You don’t think there’s a difference between words as notoriously offensive as that and a less racially-charged way of putting forth an argument?
Atamasama - Awesome! For some weird reason that was always my favorite part of Highlights. The melodramatic way with which Goofus was presented as displaying horrific behavior (like, I dunno, sneezing without covering his mouth) were hilarious.
TIL Darren Garrison believes “Immigrants breed like rabbits” is a valid statement.
Wow. I suck. By the time I finished the thread I’d forgotten what was in the frickin’ OP. Really, really stupid of me. My apologies.
<litella>nevermind</litella>
As someone whose parents were UK immigrants and who bred me there (a brown rabbit), I think I’m fairly close to this issue. And I think the mod note was consistent with longstanding SDMB moderation policy. The poster in question will get himself warned and banned on his own, don’t worry. There was a poster years ago who used to say similar things specifically about me.
Maybe I’m overreacting. I am disheartened by the mods’ cavalier attitudes toward racism, and that, combined with a sense that I’m spending too much time here, makes me question whether I need to go cold turkey or just decrease my time on the boards.
The poster in question might get himself banned, but there are more than a handful of explicit racists that have managed to play the civility card adroitly enough that similarly vile statements get made for years.
But maybe I’m overreacting.
I think the thread that Bone just shut down is actually more worthy of a warning than the comment cited in this thread’s OP. The distinction I make is that in the Sadiq Khan thread in the elections forum, it’s beyond obvious that the OP is being a race-baiting troll.