So, do you disagree with my conclusion, or just the reasoning I used to arrive at it?
The conclusion – because you seem to think large numbers of first-generation immigrants are some kind of threat to our national identity. That is not true. It is true that they can never really be part of it, even if legally naturalized as citizens – but, their children can, being born and raised here is all it takes, regardless of whether their parents ever became citizens or not. They will speak American English and their cultural worldview, political and otherwise, will be American – maybe with some ethnic-group variations, but essentially American.
Look, immigrants come to America from different countries all over the world – so, when they get here, the American culture they are trying to join is the only one they all have in common. They’re never going to turn America into New Arabia or New Africa or New China or New New Spain or whatever. The melting pot always worked before, no reason to suppose it’s about to stop working now.
I would say they could be a threat under certain circumstances.
This, I agree with and have noted in the thread. Assimilation works.
I want to believe you, because New Arabia, Africa, China, and Spain sound rather awful.
Unless there is a level at which it breaks down. Otherwise benign policies and trends can become harmful when taken to extremes: taxation, for example.
Now I want to know what the peak percentage of Americans who were foreign-born was, and when it occured (discounting the earliest years of the union, of course). Off to do research.
I agree with this and I’m sympathetic to the “200 million Chinese immigrants all at once” argument.
However, I think it’s better to err on the side of morality, and let in all comers. If it starts causing “Chinese invasion” level problems (which I highly doubt), I think we would have enough forewarning to adjust our policies then.
Until that day, Mexicans are people too and we should let them be Americans if they want. Today. Not ten years, ten thousand dollars and countless hours spent on bullshit paperwork IF you happen to meet some bullshit qualifications later. It doesn’t matter if they have a degree, speak English or apply for patents. If they’re human and want to be American, they have my stamp of approval.
True, policies could be adjusted if problems became evident. I’m also in favor of reforming and streamlining the naturalization process.
I’ve completed my research, the peak percentage of Americans who were foreign-born was 14.8%, and it occured in 1890. The figure for 1870 was 14.4%, and 1910 was 14.7%. All figures from this study.
So, that gives me some kind of baseline for a cap, knowing that 14.8% was assimilated successfully.
Just out of curiosity, what would unsuccessful look like?
The only legitimate worry I can think of would be for another more populous country (China, India) to plan an “invasion of immigrants” to take us over from the inside. A form of Entryism, which I think would be pretty obvious and easy to stop if it were happening.
Otherwise, it sounds like people are afraid of all that icky foreign culture polluting our country, like seeing minarets in your town and hearing your neighbor speak Spanish (Irish cops and Chinese restaurants were once included in this category, too*). Well that is pure xenophobia. I’m not necessarily blaming anyone in this thread, but xenophobia seems to be the driving influence behind any sort of restrictions on immigration.
- And here is the yucky Irishman who won’t mix in the Mortar of Assimilation, from 1889. Now we’re worried about those damn Mexicans. Xenophobia is still alive and well in the US.
Unsuccessful, to me, would be the loss of the values I articulated earlier. It would manifest primarily through changes to the law and possibly the Constitution.
I hadn’t thought of that; I suppose it’s possible, though difficult to organize and conceal. My concerns are based on no such organized effort.
Oh, sure. There are lots of reason people favor restriction immigration. Some of them are valid, others are understandable (xenophobia) but invalid, and others are not understandable (racism) and invalid.
That image always amuses me, the little Irishman looks so evil. Note that I’ve said that assimilation works and always has amongst all national origins, my concern is that it may stop working at a certain threshold. This may or may not be the case, it’s not something can be readily confirmed by experimentation.
The keystone of my concerns is that I regard the United States as an oasis, a fragile bastion of the ideals I hold to, vastly outnumbered by nations espousing contrary ideals. I want to protect my oasis at all costs.
I am using the absurd to illustrate my point. You cannot just throw people in jail and not feed them. So an arbitrary sentence means committing to that much food and health care and etc that could be spent on Americans. Unless of course you want to open special prisons just for illegal immigrants. They could be treated like dirt, exploited for all they are (not) worth and summarily executed for minor offenses. Perhaps they could toil under a banner with an inspirational slogan on it, something like “work will set you free”. Start doing that and you will see illegal immigration drop to nothing. But again, I’m illustrating with the absurd. For a real, practical solution, put them back in Mexico as close to the day they cross as possible and make sure they land in a Mexican jail when they get home.
Also, serious question here, if you had to choose between a slum in Mexico or a jail in the US, which would you rather spend five years in?
. . . Hey, that’s Pat Buchanan’s grandpa!
Saudi Arabia, I suppose.
And, as I understand it, all of those non-nationals are permanent guest-workers with no hope of citizenship. (For what citizenship is worth in a country where nobody has the vote anyway.)
The slum, absolutely. And I’ve been in both.
Fair enough. I’d love to hear more as to why.
Theoretically, the King can grant citizenship to non-nationals for “service to the kingdom”. There was an Indian army officer who was offered citizenship in the 1980s
for training Saudi tank crews or something like that, but his name (and citations) escapes me.
Paging Sheriff Arpaio!