Immunity after getting COVID should fulfill vaccine requirements

The Quarantine Zone
161

I think this is the core of our disagreement. I think the government should need a reason to require something. When vaccines provided a substantial degree of sterilizing immunity, and when there was less evidence that prior infection provided decent immunity, there was a very strong case to be made that i have an interest in whether you are vaccinated, and that the government should require vaccination.

Now that vaccines provide almost no sterilizing immunity at “full vaccination”, and modest sterilizing immunity with a booster, the case to require others to be vaccinated is a lot weaker. Yes, we have a hospital access problem at the moment which is aggravated by the crazy high number of unvaccinated adults in the US. But that’s not going to be affected by mandates, one way or the other, because that’s going to recede on its own before mandates have time to change anything.

So i don’t think the case to require vaccination at all is really powerful at this point in the pandemic. I mean, i can see an excellent case for employers to require it (both to reduce absenteeism and to control healthcare costs) but we don’t have socialized healthcare in the US, so that’s not a super argument for a legal mandate.

And even to the extent you can still argue to require it, surely that argument should be based on expecting a real benefit from the requirement. At least keeping someone from clogging the hospitals.

But you are starting from “we must require this, unless someone has an excuse.” I reject that framing of the question.

I think the shrug is a sign of frustration that other posters seem weirdly indifferent to the fact that getting vaccinated carries real costs to many people, and the costs are highest to those who need it least: to young adults and to people who already have a lot of immunity. If i feel too crappy to work for a day, to do my regular housework, to cook and care for my kids, that’s a substantial cost.

This board leans old. Getting vaccinated is an enormous net win for old people (like me). We have essentially zero risk of serious reactions, and are unlikely to suffer more than a sore arm and maybe feeling a little tired. And we are at huge risk from catching covid. A sixty year old who doesn’t get boosted is an idiot, IMHO. But I’m not sure it IS a net win for a 25 year old who had one dose of mRNA, and then caught omicron. I suspect the risks outweigh the benefits, in fact.

162

You guys aren’t going to convince the antivaxers in this thread. At this point it’s only going to attract more.

163

As stated above no booster reinfection is needed. Previous infection provides years and years of immunity. Any reinfections will be mild.

164

You have stated that, but your sources disagree with your claim. The real answer is that we can’t know how long protection lasts until we have a sample set of people who have waited that long.

Yes, immunity to the original SARS seems to have been long-lived. You know what, immunity to the coronaviruses that cause the common cold routinely wanes in a year. We just don’t know how long immunity to covid will last.

165

Let’s put a damper on the ‘public health’ benefit of vaccine mandates.

“The Omicron variant likely will spread more easily than the original SARS-CoV-2 virus and how easily Omicron spreads compared to Delta remains unknown. CDC expects that anyone with Omicron infection can spread the virus to others, even if they are vaccinated or don’t have symptoms.”

166

Vaccinated people are still much less likely to be hospitalized, even with the Omicron variant. And overfilled ICUs are also a public health issue.

167

My point was that being vaccinated does not prevent you from spreading it to others.

168

Currently. Personally, I’m hoping for an omicron booster in the spring that imparts significant sterilizing immunity.

(Sterilizing immunity is when your immune system wipes out the virus so quickly that you can’t give it to others.)

169

So the externality of taking up scarce health care resources so that other people end up dying is not a public health issue. Got it. Me, me, me, and only me. Oh wait we are talking about public health.

170

Not true. Studies have shown that vaccinated people clear the virus much faster and are no longer contagious. Attack rates of vaccinated, and presumably previously-infected, are much lower.

Also, even with omicron, vaccinated people are catching it at less than half the rate of unvaccinated.

171

So technically it’s true that being vaccinated doesn’t “prevent” you from spreading it to others; it just greatly reduces the risk of it happening. Just like wearing masks, social distancing, hand sanitizing, and so forth.

The idea that a measure that isn’t 100% perfect “doesn’t work” seems to be common in anti-vax circles, but it remains entirely wrong.

172

So my quote directly taken from the CDC is wrong … imagine that.

173

The quote isn’t wrong. Your conclusion that there is therefore no public health benefit is wrong.

174

No. Would you like me to further explain how the cdc and my statement don’t conflict? Tell me which part confuses you.

Looks like Gyrate already explained. Let me know if you’re still confused.

175

I don’t drive while drunk or impaired. I also don’t let myself be distracted while piloting a vehicle.

This greatly enhances the likelihood of me arriving safely at my destination.

But it would be much more beneficial if other drivers also weren’t drunk, impaired, or inattentive.

And I have seat belts and a number of other highly effective active and passive safety devices in case.

There’s a big picture that’s critically important and multi-factorial, and hammering on one’s single pet “gotcha” point does nothing to alter that picture.

And for some of us, we aren’t the only ones in that picture. It’s a societal, global problem in which what benefits another tends to create incremental benefit to us all.

But I think @Chingon was probably right :wink:

176

It greatly reduced the risk you would spread the disease up through the Delta variant. With Omicron, it only slightly reduces the risk you will spread it unless you’ve been boosted. Being boosted does moderately reduce the risk you will spread it. But very few places have that as their mandate.

I am hoping we will get a booster (or new initial vaccine, for those who aren’t yet vaccinated) in the spring that will provide a high level of sterilizing immunity. Sadly, that’s not what we have right now.

177

Wearing a seatbelt doesn’t prevent you from dying in a traffic accident. Driving sober doesn’t prevent you from killing others in a traffic accident. Wearing a parachute doesn’t prevent you from dying in a skydiving accident.

178

No, but banning all automobiles would prevent all car crash deaths. What price are you willing to pay?

179

If there were a 100% safe and 60% effective vaccine against car crash deaths, I would be comfortable with it being a requirement to drive a car.

180

There already are seatbelt mandates enshrined in law. And they do reduce traffic deaths. And they are far more analogous to vaccine mandates than “banning all automobiles”.

Although if you lose control driving down that slippery slope, remember to steer into the skid.