Impairing your mental ability? Disgusting!

The BBQ Pit
41

If it’s not morality, it is a fundamental misunderstanding of the effects of drugs.

Anyway, the fleeting joy you experience being with your family hardly compares to the sheer pleasure certain drugs can give you. It’s simply not comparable. Drugs can make you feel the love for your family to a degree you couldn’t possibly have ever imagined sober. If you’ve never experienced it, you can’t even have an accurate concept of it.

You can think what you want about me. I think you’ve swallowed a bit too much propaganda.

42

:dubious:

I can say with all honesty not one pot smoker I’ve ever met in my life as ever acted like that, that I’ve personally seen, and about half the people I know smoke it. (restaurant/bar/night club entertainment industry)…in fact I’ve never met anyone like that about any drug (though I’ll admit this may just be my personal experience). I might smoke pot occasionally , but I loathe hard drugs, and have turned them down many times in many different situations, and not a one of em ever even looked at me askance…I assume they were just being polite in offering in the first place. YMMV, of course.

43

As I said; in the extreme case, I agree with you, but in the moderate case, I have already described an instance in which mild inebriation can be desirable - when I write comedy sketches, I sometimes find it useful to have a couple of drinks inside me; this seems to suppress just that part of my intellect that prematurely dismisses ideas that, on the face of them, might seem worthless; this allows deeper exploration of some lines of thought and in many cases, the slightly attenuated connection to cold logic enables leaps of brilliant humour.

That’s not to say that I can’t write comedy without alcohol; it just happens that a small amount of alcohol affects my mental processes in just the right way so as to predispose them to more productive and colourful writing.

There are other cases wherein moderate drinking is beneficial; I find that a small glass of sloe gin works wonders on a tickly cough; a nip of brandy can help with occasional insomnia etc etc.

44

Magnetout just described the underlying positions of BOTH sides on the continuing War On Some Drugs:

Users cite this as their reason for wanting to do them. Non-users generally refuse to accept that this is their reason for wanting to punish the users.

The key, as in all things, is MODERATION, people!!!

Alcohol is not for everybody.
Marijuana is not for everybody.
Cocaine is not for everybody.
Heroin is definitely not for everybody.
Aspirin is not for everybody.
Penicillin is not for everybody.
Zoloft is not for everybody. Consult your physician about a free sample. Use only as directed. Do not discontinue use without consulting your physician. May cause (big long list of scary symptoms).
Learn what YOU like. Have the freedom to learn. And enjoy… in moderation. This is what life is all about.

45

My grandmother died of cirrhosis of the liver. It was not pretty.

My father died drinking and driving, going south in a north bound lane. It did not look very good as well.

I drank like they were going to stop making it next week. I would consume any substance that would give me kicks. In 1987 I rear-ended a car FULL of people. I was traveling about 60 mph, no one was hurt. I was an athiest but I thanked God anyway, the other drunks in jail were not interested.

For the past 16 years I have lived with an attitude similar to the OP. I heard a saying once, “There is nothing more self-righteous than a reformed whore.” THAT’S ME.

46

Well, actually, I have, and by altering the natural function of the brain only as much as it is possible to do by having a boyfriend, but thank you for your concern.

I like to go out clubbing an awful lot, but dealing with people who are wasted is not fun. And I agree that it’s more than possible to not get wasted, but the thing is that a lot of people do get wasted.

Having your friend fall over at a party so you have to drag her home and not get the number of that hot artist you were cruising all night is a pain in the ass. Having a guy you know make you promise to put him in a taxicab, then fight with him later about getting in one, then having him drag you to a skanky strip club and stay all night, and fight with him again about getting in the damn cab, and then having him grab the first random guy that comes along because he’s suddenly horny is a pain in the ass. Having date after date with a guy you really like ruined because he’s drunk off his tree is a pain in the ass.

I’ve watched (listened?) as the music they play at those clubs has deteriorated to formless, colourless, contentless thumpa-thumpa-thumpa that you can only enjoy by being on Tina, which everyone else is. Hell, I liked the music better at that rave I went to sober. My ex who took me to that rave, though, basically destroyed himself with K. (I think he’s getting better but I’m not sure.)

The effects of drugs can be excellent. I had a fabulous time at the rave I just mentioned. I got an enormous contact high (I get those a lot). Sometimes it’s great fun to be around people who are slightly sozzled. I’ve never been inconvenienced by a stoner. (Well, there was that one guy, but it didn’t seem to be a “stoned” thing to do, but an “asshole” thing to do.) And don’t you dare get between me and my caffeine.

But yeah, you’ll excuse me if I avoid chemicals and those that use them when they’ve frequently deteriorated rather than improved my enjoyment of social situations.

Also, all alcohol tastes like shite.

47

Your point, being, what hlanelee?

Not everyone who consumes alcohol is a drunk. Not everyone who uses recreational drugs is an addict. To look at a drug user and drug addict as one in the same is the very height of ignorance.

smiling bandit, have you ever heard the term “my, how the mighty have fallen?” It’s a general rule of thumb that the most unbearably self rightious gits about any particular issue are usually bound to fall victim to it.

I suggest reserving judgment about something to when you’ve actually had some experience in it, firsthand. Knowing some people (in their first year of college no less!) that abuse a certain substance (drinking until you’re vomiting is not using in moderation) does not count as first hand experience.

I know a lot of people, including myself, who partake in occasional recreational drug use. Most of these people are quite successful. It is very possible to hold down a professional job, do well in school and be a responsible and reliable person, while engaging in occasional recreational drug use.

To say otherwise is to not know what the hell you’re talking about.

48

Well, I’m athier than you!

Wow, so you treat people who drink and do drugs like the asshole that you were? There’s something to be proud of.

And I don’t understand what’s so great about being a self-righteous prig. It’d be a funny old world if we were all alike, eh?

Look, I drink because I like it. No one is forcing you to do jack shit (I’m leaving aside yosemite babe’s problems with her peer group right now), and, frankly, your preachy attitude is pretty fucking annoying.

49

Hey, Zoe.

Don’t worry. Things, I think, are getting better. When I first came to the boards, I wouldn’t even have been able to post that.

You’re right, living does have repercussions. And yes, I’m missing out on most of life by trying to evade them. That’s why I’m working on it- but living, feeling, and enjoying are the hardest things I’ve ever had to do. I mean, how do they work?

That aside, I still reject drinking for at least two important (to me) reasons: the Passport Postulate, and the Utilitarian Appraisal.

The first analogises an element of the ‘self’, in this case, the body, to an old-fashioned passport document held by a traveler in a foreign land. Lose it, you’re screwed. Your trip may very soon end in an unpleasant manner. Even if it’s only damaged, there will be stations that won’t let you pass - things you can’t do, or do as well as before. So you protect your passport, since it’s the critical pin in the whole project of this trip you’re on.
One could make a similar analogy using ‘mind’ in place of body.
Drugs put certain body systems at risk: alcohol may be bad for a number of organs, including the liver; smoke is bad for the lungs; etc. Taking the drugs to do something not vital to the mission is like dangling your passport (or parts of it) out in the wind as you ride a train, just to see it flutter in the breeze.

The second is more bland. It lists the things that might go wrong with one drug or another:

  • Temporary physical or mental impairment
  • Permanent physical or mental impairment
  • Doing something while you’re out of your tree that you’ll regret (conceive a child, hurt someone, etc)
  • Addiction
  • Revealing things about yourself that are assigned to the ‘Secrets’ folder in your brain.
  • Looking like a fool, if that’s important
  • Feelng crummy the morning after
  • Puking on the couch.

And also lists the good things about them:

  • It makes you feel funny
  • It might be fun
  • You get to be part of the crowd.

And then does a cost-benefit analysis.

For me, the benefits do not outweigh the risks. Plus, there’s the idea that if food is fuel for your body, then Big Macs are cheap gasoline with high moisture content, and alcohol and drugs are like putting sand in your gas tank. But the stuff I said in my first post is the biggest reason.

50

I have some sympathy for the OP’s point of view. I hate to lose control of myself, and that can happen with too much alcohol. But I have found that the effects of limited amounts of alcohol can help me to understand myself, it can release tensions and allows me to think about things in a less self-critical fasion. In groups a little alcohol can help in relaxing social strictures, both from the effect of the alcohol, but also from the group understanding that when someone has taen alcohol they are freed from certain formal requirements for propriety of action. Thus I believe abstenance is no better than moderation. And in fact believe that abstenance is a sign that someone has an unhealthy fear of letting themselves go, or else has had bad experiences and lacks the ability to be moderate.

51

My POINT, for the record, is at least three generations of my family ruined their lives drinking. All of us started out as social drinkers. No one is born a stinking drunk. Everyone has the potential to be a stinking drunk. Be careful if one day you tell someone. “I’m in control” or the ever popular “I can quit anytime I want to.”

52

Women look better and it’s easier to beat up cops.

[sub]This was a joke, go easy on me[/sub]

53

Recreational substances can be great fun. Sometimes, particularly the psychedelics, they can expand your mind. They often act as social grease.

54

My view:

Alcohol and other drugs are tools.

They’re tools that can create a broad variety of effects.

Not all of those effects are things that are desirable; of the neutral ones, not all of them are desired by all people. If we all wanted the same things, think of the oatmeal shortage.

Further, the culture in which I live is very twitchy about the use of such chemical tools, for a wide variety of reasons. (Not going to go into that whole separate rant.) There is a great deal of misinformation and hysteria on the one hand, and a lot of counterculture rebellion on the other; on the gripping hand, it is somewhat difficult to get good information about the proper tool use, which means that unsafe practices, misinformation, and ignorance are perpetuated.

Add to this that the hostile environment means that the smugly teetotal present their abstinence as a sign of moral superiority and social adjustment, and the obnoxiously imbibing present their usage as a sign that they’re working towards achieving higher goals and aren’t brainwashed by The Man. I wind up wanting to thump both of 'em and say that their particular desires aren’t in and of themselves superior goalstates and could they stop making life hell for the people who just want to do their thing, whatever their thing may be, whether that thing involves chemical tools or not.

What I wish would happen is that people would do the damn research for themselves, get the information they need to handle what they do safely, and behave accordingly. I don’t think this is likely to happen when drugs are a bogeyman, though; too much risk perceived associated with easily available information and too much transgressive value in ignoring the hysteria.

55

You know, I read it and I looked… but I can’t find anywhere where they said they “needed” chemical help.

I suppose you don’t do anything that you enjoy that you don’t need? I assume you don’t vary what you eat according to what tastes good. I assume you don’t watch any TV or see any movies, or play any games. I mean if you needed it that badly… you’d have something quite wrong with your brain. YOU DON’T NEED THAT! SO STOP IT! PUT THAT DOWN!

I would hate to live in your world–a world where doing something unneccessary just for the joy of it constitutes having “something wrong with your brain” yadda yadda.

56

Again, there is a HUGE difference between using alchohol and drugs and ABUSING them. Not everyone who drinks is or is going to become, an alchoholic. Not everyone who uses recreational drugs is, or is going to become, an addict. Please refrain from pushing your own experiences and inabilities to use drugs and alcohol in moderation, on others. Not everyone has these issues.

57

Well put, lezlers and OpalCat.

58

It’s too easy to blame alcohol for problems where the person abusing the alcohol is the source of the problem. I believe that many people who abuse alcohol, would abuse something else were alcohol not available to them. The list of abusable substances is vast, so banning them all would be unlikely or maybe impossible. Of more use would be the making of DUI offences socially unacceptable (as happened in UK, where drunk driving is considered as socially disgusting as giving your dog a blow job) and making drunkenness socially unacceptable.

59

I have always considered myself very fortunate that I can have a few drinks and smoke a bowl or two with friends without feeling the need to consume until I become a blithering idiot, or worse yet, mean, sullen, and looking for trouble.
Alcohol and other drugs do indeed release many people from their inhibitions, but that’s not always a good thing. If what you’re keeping pent up is an asshole, I’d just as soon you stay inhibited.

60

Hell. I guess this was the wrong thread to open just as I was about to leave work and was contemplating whether I’d have a Victory Hop Devil IPA or a Moonglow Wiesenbock when I got home. Guess I’ll have both - and repeat.

Too bad your invite to our Octoberfest beertasting last Sunday got lost in the mail. Every attendee has since called or e-mailed to say what a good time they had and to make sure they were invited to the upcoming holiday tasting - including those who came but didn’t drink.

I don’t think it is wrong for people to do things that they enjoy and that make them feel good. Overindulging and/or imposing costs on others is another matter entirely.