I guess this would be news to my late orthodox jewish grandmother and grandfather, and my non-religious jewish grandmother on the other side.
You do realize that the person in question literally called for a final solution for Muslims, right? You are calling me a nazi because I am asking for legal consequences for someone who is calling for another holocaust.
This is the purpose of laws against religious incitement, laws which exist because countries like Germany and the UK recognize that part of the problem with fascism is that it uses the tools of democracy against democracy. Modern germany bans some speech and some political parties outright. Far from being a “national socialistic” solution, it’s specifically a solution tailored to prevent the nazis from regaining power. So yeah, you can’t deny the holocaust, you can’t run as NSDAP2.0, and you can’t call for a fucking final solution.
Apparently, the laws in the UK are not dissimilar. This kind of hate speech is literally breaking the law in the UK. Hence, the correct response is to prosecute this person to the force of the law. There are better places to defend free speech than a place where the person in need of defense is violating the law and calling for a fucking holocaust!
Katie Hopkins is a vile, repulsive excuse for a human being. But don’t you see how incredibly hypocritical you are by wishing her dead because she wished others dead??
I see this all the time and it always baffles me. Remember, if you’re going to claim to be better than someone, you damn well should act better!
Do you actually think she is calling for a real Holocaust? And if we are going to prosecute her for religious incitement, lets also prosecute those at Mosques and in the communities which spawn the terrorists. Not that I believe anyone should be prosecuted for dangerous/stupid speech that isnt backed by action to carry the dangerous/stupid threats.
BTW, the way you characterize people on the other end of the political spectrum should see you prosecuted under the system you taught. You call for their civil rights to be taken away. You impugn evil motives. You basically do exactly what the Nazi propaganda machine did to their enemies which made them appear less than human.
What indeed should we do about the rightwing media?
Katie Hopkins is an idiot who once commented that she hates children with geographical locations as names and was immediately called out by the tv host who commented that Katie’s daughter is named India.
So I say, the best answer is ignore whatever nonsense drops out of her mouth and if you run into anyone who starts off a sentence with, “Well, Katie Hopkins says…” laugh in their face and take their lunch money. They’ll learn soon enough.
There is a difference in wanting innocent people to die and wanting a harmful bigoted person to die.
Osama bin Laden wanted people to die. Were people wrong to want him dead?
No, she’s not that bad. But it illustrates the point. It’s not hypocritical to want the person doing horrible things to die, even if they want us dead.
The reasons are different. One is due to bigotry and wanting to hurt people, and thus is wrong. The other is due to caring about people and wanting justice.
This lady is actively harming people with her bigotry. She should be made to stop. If it requires her to die to get that, so be it. Though, as you are no doubt aware, that was likely hyperbole.
It’s possible she might get away with this on some blurriness on the wording - she did replace it later with “true solution,” and “final solution” was not capitalized like Final Solution, so one could make a legally believable argument that the term “final solution” meant something other than genocide. It would be on the verge of believability and plausibility.
That doesn’t stop her from hurting people. Nor does it stop her people from voting to leave the EU or elect an evil wannabe dictator. Ignoring bigotry doesn’t make it go away. This shit has to be fought.
Also, let me be clear, my previous post is not advocating for this lady to be killed. I’m defending someone who wishes her dead. Ideally the law should handle it, because the UK apparently actually cares about bigotry, unlike much of the U.S. that wants to cry “freedom of speech” every time it rears its ugly head, and then tries to shut up the people trying to stop it.
What I’m saying is that it doesn’t make someone a horrible person to want someone evil to die. If it did, then all the people happy that Roger Ailes died would be evil, too.
No, there really isn’t at all. Wishing death on someone because you don’t like what they say? Hmmmmm, now who does that sound like? Oh, I know - ISIS!
I’m not talking about self-defense. While Bin Laden was free and actively causing more deaths I would have been happy to have a sniper take him out and I’m glad he died. But, like Saddam Hussein, had he been captured alive, I would oppose his death.
I strongly stand by my statement that you can not claim the higher ground by wishing death on someone because they wished death on someone.
Good fucking grief. You know that ISIS would agree with you, right? And that they have actually beheaded journalists because of what they said.
I don’t know, call me crazy, but I prefer to hold myself to a higher standard than terrorists.
I don’t think you know what hypocrisy is. If you don’t see any difference between wishing someone dead and calling for them to be killed, that’s your moral blind-spot.
If you don’t see the difference between wishing an individual was dead, and calling for a new holocaust, that’s just fucked up.
If the creature had said it that wished anyone supporting the bombing was dead, I would have been in the awkward position of agreeing with it.
Legally plausible maybe. Anyone who actually believes it though, is a fool. These people always seem to think they are talking in some sophisticated code only they can decipher. It’s about as cryptic or as ambiguous as “do you want to come up and see my etchings.”
If she gets fired, good. She has no right to a job, and I’d fire her ass if it were me.
To say she should be prosecuted, or should die? WTF is wrong with you people? That’s the kind of shit they did in Soviet Russia, or Nazi Germany. Do you really want to go there? Oh wait, you say, but this is different, she’s a bigot, that’s why we’re going after her. She’s harmful to society.
Same justification used by the ones you claim to hate. But hey, if it makes you feel better about yourselves, go for it. You’ll either just drive them underground, or worse, make martyrs out of them. You really think that’s a good idea? :dubious:
Yes I do. Whether or not she ‘really means it’ or is just ‘generating controversy’ is totally irrelevant. People do take her seriously and she is untroubled by the consequences of her bile. If you think someone else should also meets the criteria for prosecution, why not point them out rather than vaguely referring to unspecified ‘people in mosques’. Who, and what did they say?
Yeah, yeah, I’m being intolerant of intolerance. No matter how many times I hear this, it always amazes me that it can be said with any seriousness. “Lets go out and kill everyone of a different race/religion” is not just a difference of opinion in the marketplace of ideas. It shouldn’t be dispassionately weighed against other political views like, say raising or lowering taxes. If anyone wants to “impugn evil motives” with regards to me, go nuts. In fact, people on the right invariably do just that and I don’t give a fuck.
When it comes to market regulation, or immigration, hell yes. When it comes to mass-murder, if we permit the idea to reach a critical level of acceptance, we can take our place in the queue. This is not some abstract thought experiment. This is something which societies occasionally do.
I know this is a UK issue and UK law governs it, but in the US we would cringe at the idea of arresting someone for such a tweet. We don’t have active Thought Police. Yet.
Yes, yes. We’re all quivering with fear over here. It’s a dystopian nightmare. On the other hand, we tend not to get gunned down in the street by our police officers, which does offer a tiny crumb of consolation.
