I did NOT say that. What I said was that making cracks about Jews, or about Asians, or about Blacks are ALL punching down. No matter the race of the person making the cracks.
I don’t know what you want me to do. If I don’t think something is racist, my opinion is that it isn’t racist. That is in fact how my opinions work. What is the alternative?
I can always be wrong, and sometimes I even change my opinion - as shown with the Cracker Barrel tangent. You don’t need me to agree with you because I am not the one in charge. Miller already issued a modnote to damuriajashi.
~Max
Apologies if I misunderstood, but this is what you said:
“And if the Asian or Jew says something anti-Black, that is also down.”
To me that sure sounds like the Jew or Asian are up, if they saying something Anti-Black is punching down. If not, then I don’t get what you mean.
The alternative is learning. The standard definition is the standard definition because of common usage. You can recognize that words have different definitions and different connotations depending on context, and that while you, personally, don’t find a word offensive, most people do, and treat the word accordingly.
Here’s that phrase incontext.
I was claiming that it’s punching down for any of those three people to make racist cracks about any of the other two. I was explicitly trying to illustrate that you CAN’T rank people. I guess I failed.
Clothahump, in a series of threads that ultimately got him banned for admitting to trolling.
That’s the problem with using terms like up and down. It implies a ranking.
And while you may not think Asian or Jewish are ‘up’, plenty of people do. That’s one of the problems I have with the whole concept.
Ok- so again, my apologies for misunderstanding. Glad I posted a response rather than walking away annoyed. Unfortunately too many people don’t believe as you do, as I have certainly been subjected to that attitude.
As I said, up vs down is a useful heuristic. It’s not the whole story, but as a concept it’s not wrong.
That some people don’t get it right doesn’t make the concept flawed.
Yes well, with all due respect, there is more to learning language than memorizing a dictionary. The goal of the relevant Pit rule is not to avoid offending people but to keep a modicum of decency. My experience with the word ‘cracker’ is that it is a perfectly civil word, and in a room where “racist motherf*****” adheres to the standards of decency, “racist cracker” does too.
~Max
Sure. But saying doctors are just corporate shills who don’t care about their patients wouldn’t be okay either. I’m not saying all insults or stereotypes are equally bad, but I don’t believe we should give offensive comments a pass just because someone considers them to be ‘punching up’.
No one, no one has said give them a pass.
But when you have someone bleeding out and someone with a paper cut, and limited time and energy, which issue should you deal with first?
I’ve seen it used to excuse bad behaviour way too many times. IMO having this kind of double standard for acceptability is inherently prone to abuse. If it serves a useful purpose it would be better to find some other concept to replace it.
My first reply on the subject was to someone saying exactly that.
Of course there is. That changes nothing. Your own connotation of the term “cracker” is different from the meaning it has for the majority of people. Anyone who wants to communicate effectively should be aware of that, whether they’re in the Pit or elsewhere.
You’re not offended, fine. Most people see the term as offensive. That matters, in the Pit or anywhere else.
That is definition 5a. Definition 5b - the prevailing usage in my experience - reads,
sometimes offensive : a native or resident of Florida or Georgia —used as a nickname
~Max
It raises the larger question of who decides what is offensive. Is it up to the majority (presumably of the group so described)? Is it offensive if a minority, or anyone at all is offended? Do those in power decide (in this case the mods)? Or are the group not allowed to be offended at all, because it is considered ‘punching up’ to insult them?
That is your opinion, not mine. Just look back at the replies, I don’t see a consensus even in this topic.
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~Max
You get to decide for yourself what offends you, but the mods get to decide what is or is not hateful and/or racist enough to merit sanctions.
~Max
About the linked article? That’s a very different situation- that’s like saying because we find comedians who roast people funny we think insulting people is A-Ok. That was a very specific situation.