In My Opinion, Cats Should Be Kept Indoors

In My Humble Opinion
61

I’ll leave the rest alone, because a cat-resistant yard (i.e. your cat can’t get out - strays, wildlife, mean people, etc. can’t get in) is, as I said earlier, something I would totally do for my cats if I had a house and a yard (and the money). Though me, being a little more on the paranoid side still wouldn’t let them out unsupervised.

However, in your quote above, you again (seem to) state that being fixed has anything to do with one cat infecting another. I gave you three different sources, one of them your own, that states quite clearly that the majority of FIV infections are caused by saliva to blood transfer (i.e. biting - usually from fighting, which is why stray males are more likely to contract FIV), NOT by (cat) sperm to whatever transfer (i.e. mating).

I’m quite aware of that. I had one cat that was FIV+. I didn’t know it until Tawney was 10 years of age though and diagnosed with lympoma. I lost her brother 9 months earlier (just 1 month before she was diagnosed with cancer) before that from renal failure (he probably was FIV+ as well considering they were littermates). They were strictly indoor cats both their entire lives. They were both tested as kittens (and found negative). However, I’ve learned since finding out about Tawney that if you test under a year of age, you can get a false negative (or false positive), so I can only imagine that their mother was positive - they were never around another cat.

My point is that keeping your cats inside isn’t a guarantee of a life free from disease and early death, but letting them roam free does significantly increase their chances of said disease and early death. I love my cats (past, present, and future) enough to do what I can to give them an edge.

62

Yes, and a stray random cat could still fight, fixed or not. I realize that, and didn’t mean to stray from what you posted about transmission. like I said, I researched this a bit back, and didn’t realize I’d missed or not found that part. (and it makes sense, given the way human HIV and other blood-borne diseases are transmitted, too).

I’ve had to put down cats with FIV, too, though not in the last 15 years, at least - if I were in the same situation today and I could isolate him, I would. At the time we had no way to isolate him, there was not a lot known (or at least explained to me) about FIV and dealing with it.

63

So they are. We’d never contemplate having our cats live 100% indoors because we think kitty litter trays are disgusting, plus of course cats like to have a little personal space.

Our home is on a very small block, so we’ve enclosed the back yard to be cat-proof. There’s a flap in the door, and they can come and go as they like. Sadly, my elder boy considers it a great adventure to get around our efforts at cat-proofing, so we’re up for yet another modification to the enclosure for his benefit. However, the younger one has never made the slightest effort to try and escape.

Fortunately, Neko (the adventurer) mainly tries to find a way out just to prove a point. He heads up over the roof for about an hour every night, then comes back and settles in (I’m a night owl, so I know when he’s around at night). I think it’s more a token gesture on his part, kind of a

:smiley:

64

Another problem with the FIV vaccine: according to it’s manufacturer, it only works 82% of the time:

From The FIV Vaccine: Why this hospital is saying no (for now):

Since (as previous posters have stated) cats who are vaccinated against FIV will test positive for the disease, this means that if you vaccinate your pet against FIV you have

The site goes on to repeat what others have said:

**
Posting that your cat who is allowed outside lived to 17 years is hardly a valid argument for allowing cats outside. That is like pointing out the chain smoker who lived to age 90 as an argument that smoking is not dangerous. The cites provided by others back up the obvious correlation between keeping a cat indoors only and living longer.

Just because your cat howls and cries if he can’t go out does not mean he is happier or healthier if allowed outside. Would you make the same argument for your two-year old child who cries if not allowed to play with the shiny sharp knife? Even the most vociferous previously-allowed-outdoors cat will get over it after a few days or weeks, and if never freely allowed outdoors won’t even know what he’s “missing.”

It should be obvious to everyone that if you have a truly cat-proof yard (cat can’t get out and no other animals can get get in) that that is the same as an “indoor-only” cat for the purposes of this thread. We’re talking about allowing the cat to roam freely outdoors. Sheesh!

Likewise, having a working cat as a “tool” that you care nothing about at all also seems hardly germain to this discussion.

I also don’t buy the correlation to living in a nursing home being a bad thing even if you could live to 110. First of all, many seniors are quite happy and much better off in an assisted living situation, if they are properly cared for and cannot properly care for themselves. More imprtant, however, is the fact that cats are not people. They do not have the same capacity for abstract thought as humans. I do not believe a cat has a “live free or die” mindset that some humans do. In fact, I think that is plain silly. Cats are domesticated pets, and providing you care for them properly, will be quite happy and contented living inside your house. Letting them roam outdoors is detrrimental to their health. If you care about their well-being, you should not let them roam freely outdoors.

65

Just a note on my experience.

We got Tang from the pound at 8 weeks. He was brought in in a litter at about 2 weeks, IIRC. we brought him home with the intent that he would be an indoor vat, for all of the mentioned reasons.

Once he settled in, he would sit on the window sills looking outside longingly. The he began wailing at the windows and doors. Then after a while, it got to the point that if he saw something outside that excited him, he would pee on the window sill. At age 3 1/2, he became an outdoor cat, and has behaved well ever since.

So if someone tells you that a kitten raised indoors will not miss the outdoors, well that ain’t always true.

66

Well, it’s not like we keep them on the dining room table. Ours are tucked away in the basement of our house. Besides, I thought Australia and New Zealand had a problem with feral cats killing off pretty much every native species they could get their paws on.

67

Both my old male cat as well as my old present female kitty had/has a reflective breakaway collar with bells. This had little effect on their hunting ability.
(My calico has a lovely tiger striped collar which nicely complements her tricolor coat.)
As I said before, they did occasionally get birds, usually one of the zillion sparrows we have around here, certainly never an lazuli bunting or bluebird.
Mice were what they really wanted to pursue.

68

IIRC, New Zealand is just one of the many places whose native fauna has suffered from the depredations of free-roaming domestic and feral cats. Of course, it’s a bit unfair to put all the blame on the cats, since other imported critters (such as rats) certainly did their fair share of damage.

69

As richardb noted earlier, it’s probably worthwhile to make the distinction between cats who have a secure yard to play in, and cats whose owners allow them to prowl all over the neighborhood.

I notice that no one has yet addressed the question of responsibility when some free-roaming cat wanders through someone else’s garden, burying its turds in freshly-turned flower beds and under new mulch. Coming upon cat feces in varying stages of decomposition while trying to plant bulbs is truly one of life’s more revolting experiences.

70

(bolding mine)

My thoughts exactly. That’s the part I don’t understand about some owners of outdoor cats. I have some neighbours who are wonderful people, except that their two cats use my yard as a toilet and the male cat constantly sprays my whole front porch.

I would be curious to hear from an owner of an outdoor cat - why is this ok with you? I mean this in a **sincere, polite ** way. Why does it sit right with you that my kids can’t play in the dirt in our own fenced yard? Why is it ok with you that every time I garden, I gag from the stench of cat poop? Do you think it just comes with the territory that I spend an hour every month cleaning the spray of your cat off of my aluminum siding and porch furniture?

I would really like to understand, and I hope an outdoor cat owner, who realizes I am not attacking him/her, will come along to explain! The reason I don’t understand is that in my mind, I wouldn’t dream of causing a neighbour trouble like that! Isn’t that just common courtesy, or am I really out to lunch here?

71

As I said before, I’ve had outdoor cats in the past, my present cat no longer gets out much, and regardless I will be reconsidering in the future. You are not out to lunch, arjee, I think that having an outdoor cat was the way it used to be and now it is changing, but the change is gradual.
The turd issue:
No getting around it, it’s not okay.
Nor is it polite for inconsiderate dog owners to let their pooches poop everywhere with no cleanup efforts–which happens all the time around here.
While we do have many cats in our community, we’ve had a much harder time with loose dogs roaming, chasing, barking, pooping. There is a neighbor black and white kitty in our backyard all the time–I just hope he gets a mouse or two.
We don’t get a lot of cat poop around here, maybe our landscaping discourages it.
However, we get plenty of stray dog poop. I have talked to our neighbor whose dog we’ve seen running around and pooping.
Animal Control has been called as well, by other neighbors.
arjee, have you talked to the owners of the cats who leave their deposits? Can you cover the dirt area, or call Animal Control? At our preschool we use a sandbox that has a cover.
As for urine, dogs and cats are gonna pee, gonna spray, and AFAIK it is not against the law, but maybe there are some sort of restrictions in terms of stray cats being a nuisance.

72

Knorf, your cites don’t all support your assertion.

They assume, for no apparent reason, that domesticated cats don’t also hunt mostly mice and other rodents. More on that…

That shows that cats kill far more vermin than birds. Their hunting is useful, unless you wanna save the poor mice.

When the cats were slaughtered, rat fleas carried the bubonic plague.

Most of the bird prey taken by cats are sparrows! In this country, the English sparrow (not a native species) has burgeoned, since its importation, to one of the most populous and aggressive bird species. The chief reason we don’t see purple martins much anymore is that sparrows took over all the martin houses. Look in most “bluebird” houses, and you’ll find sparrows. It seems cats aren’t hurting their favorite bird species at all!

73

I keep my cats indoors. This is because of personal experience. Since I was around seven I’ve had nine cats. The first was shot by a neighbor. The second and third was run over by a car. The fourth was bitten by something which severed her spine. She had to be euthanized. The fifth was bitten by a snake and died. The sixth died of old age, even though he was hit by a car once and lost all his teeth and was never right afterwards. The seventh was grabbed by some neighbor dogs and killed. The main reason these were outdoor cats was my father, who didn’t like cats very much.

My two current cats don’t go outside period. They don’t seem to care as long as they have each other to play with and they can look out the window.

74

Since it was my “politically incorrect” statement that started all this, I would like to clarify a few things about my position on the indoor/outdoor debate. The incident I related in the other thread took place over 22 years ago. At that time, where we were living, there were no laws or regulations requiring cats to be indoors. Dogs had to be tied up when outside, cats were allowed to roam, but must have current rabies tag. We lived on a military base that had plenty of open land for roaming. Mostly the cats hunted and played in the field behind the house, and slept on the porches and behind the bushes. My one cat was a stray who just moved in with us when he fell in love with our kitten…we got him his shots, had him fixed, doctored him when he became ill. But both cats were very unhappy being confined to the house. They were used to being outdoors, and enjoyed playing with all the kids in the yard. We moved to another Army base, and there were lovely woods to explore, so outdoor cats never bothered other people’s property. The cats even went for walks with us around the neighborhood. They learned how to open the doors on their own, and with small children running in and out all day, it was impossible to keep them from sneaking out.

But since we’ve moved back to the suburbs, all our cats are indooor cats. One kept escaping until we could afford to get her fixed, but the rest seem happy. Unless a door is left open…then they are eager to get outside for new smells and tastes. But the law around here requires they be inside, so we keep them in. There is too much traffic here, even with all the big yards, and no open ground for exploring. They are better off indoors. They would love to be allowed in and out.

It is because people have such vehement opinions one way or the other that I called it “politically incorrect”. I like both viewpoints. It depends on where you live, what conditions are around you. Some of my fondest childhood memories are of playing with the neighbor’s cat outside. But I didn’t like it pooping in the sandbox I played in. I liked it when my cats would catch mice in the basement or yard…animals are happier when they have a job to do! But I hated cleaning up bunny bodies. Sometimes it seems like that kind of open-mindedness is what is truly politically incorrect. But that’s really got nothing to do with this discussion!

75

I’m not sure but this may be a duplicate post (tab key): I was a volunteer member of the “cat committee” in our town. The town, with our input, now has a by law which states that cats must be tagged/licensed and also may not run free - they have to be on a leash just like dogs.

Here are the reasons: some from me, some from others:

a) puts responsibility on the owners, taking away the “disposable pet” idea.
b) the cat can be identified and returned should it get lost
c) if it’s found on the road, killed, at least the owner can be notified
d) indoors cats live longer, it’s a fact.
e) songbirds and birds in general are disappearing at an alarming rate, due to loose cats

The bottom line is, it protects the cats and makes people who live with them responsible for them which they should be, just like dogs or any other pet.

Just as a point, I had an indoor cat - he lived to 19. I miss him. For the life of me, I can’t understand the open the door, let the cat out and hope for the best. Then wondering, in the morning, why they didn’t come home? Or wondering if they’re laying in the middle of the road, injured, with no one knowing who’s it is and being unable to help. We don’t do that with kids, we don’t do it with any other pets, why with cats?

76

Point taken. I was reading your “politically incorrect” statement to mean that the issue of cats in or out was simply a typical modern fake issue.

77

I’m not arjee, but I expressed a similar sentiment just before his/hers.

You’re right; it’s not appropriate regardless of the source of the excrement. I, however, can only speak from personal experience and note that, while random dog poop is relatively common along the various local walking trails, it’s only cat turds I encounter in our garden. I think that in our area, people are relatively responsible about keeping their dogs under control, but the cats wander freely. Clearly, it’s different where you are.

The other unfortunate fact is that I don’t think there’s any way I could tell which of the (at least) three wandering cats (that I’ve seen) is the culprit, or whether they all are. One of them belongs to the next-door neighbor, but I have no idea where the other two come from.

Finally, with regards to covering areas that the cats use, this wouldn’t be practical for any number of reasons, mostly having to do with the area of ground involved and the unfortunate effect it would have on the plants. Plus, it’s a little galling conceptually to be spending extra money due to someone else’s lack of responsibility (although yes, I understand that in modern life that happens all the time).

Are there any wandering-cat owners here who have any other ideas how to deal with this?

78

This post is about a gardener’s solution cats digging in your dirt and pooping there.

In my backyard, I have a small raised-bed veggie garden and a big flower bed. Both get dug over every year, so they would be appealing to cats as a litter box. Both beds are immune, though, and here’s why. The veggie garden is ringed with 3ft. high "rabbit fence. I put it up to keep the bunnies from raiding my veggies, but the cats don’t seem to like the idea of jumping over a fence to get into a litterbox. The flowerbed is covered with poultry netting (chicken wire.) I laid it right on the ground, and I nipped out little holes where the flowers go. Unless you’re standing right next to the bed, you can’t see the wire at all. Cats won’t poop where they can’t dig, and they can’t dig through chicken wire. It hurts their paws, and they find some other place.

It’s much easier to catproof your flowerbeds than to keep cussing the cats and their owners. That’s my opinion; maybe you prefer being angry all the time.

79

Cats roaming around outdoors are a complete menace. Oure neighbours have about five cats, whose territory seems to be our back garden. We used to get blackbirds, sparrows etc. digging up worms in our lawn, nightingales nesting in bushes and pots and bluetits using the birdboxes. We get none of that now, in fact, we’re lucky to see a bird in our garden somedays.

Also, the cats stink. They come and shit in our garden, dig up plants and generally cause havoc.

Perversely, the idea that your pets should stay on your own property is an idea foreign to most British cat owners.

80

That’s a really interesting idea that I’d never heard before (amid all other recommendations of chemical repellents and such). If you don’t mind my hijacking the thread a bit, and since you seem to have experience with this tactic, may I ask you a few questions about it before the next time I go to the hardware store?

  1. How large of an area do you cover?

  2. How do you deal with existing or perennial plants in those areas? In our case, we would have to work around eight well-established rose bushes in one bed (about 280 square feet) and in the other, two mature birch trees and lots of crocus that we’re trying to get to naturalize (a 6-ft radius semicircle). Do you run into problems with the wire interfering with new growth from bulbs?

  3. Do you run into problems with rust and such over a season of rain and/or watering? Do you get new wire every year?

  4. I assume you would put the wire down on top of any mulch you’re using?

Oops. My apologies; since I don’t recall expressing any anger, clearly this reply wasn’t directed at me. Forget I said anything.