Since we’re throwing out odd theories about details of the film that were left unclear…this is mine.
When Vince and Mia are at Jackrabbit Slims, they discuss the Tony Rocky Horror situation. When Vince tells Mia the reason that he heard for Tony’s “accident”, she sternly tells him that the foot massage never happened. My take on that scene is that Mia is lying.
During the entirety of their “date” that night, there was always cool flirtyness in the way that Mia spoke to Vince. When Vince told her that a foot massage was the reason for Tony’s accident, she gets noticeably agitated. That was the only time that she really spoke frankly with Vince. I think that’s because she realized it was true. Just my theory though.
I’ve also heard it theorized that Vince and Mia didn’t really win the dance contest that night. They really just stole the trophy. Evidence of this can supposedly be heard on the radio that can be heard from the window Butch passes as he sneaks back to his apartment to reclaim the watch. I’ve listened a few times and can only vaguely make out something about Jackrabit Slims. Anyone have any thoughts about that? It’s a theory that I like, but Vince and Mia did dance pretty well.
One thing on the timeline. Butch calls his buddy Lance about the bets the night of the fight, not the next day. They stop the cab on the way to the hotel.
Palooka is from the comic strip Joe Palooka by Ham Fisher. Palooka was a prize fighter-a boxer. Punchy is self-explanitory. Watch the movie, and you’ll see the cold burn in action.
Yeah, I caught my error of calling it an apartment instead of a hotel about five seconds after submitting. Excellent catch on Mia saying “the other night” at the fight, which kills any hope of the fight being the night after the date. I had thought that it would be neat if the whole movie (minus the gold watch story) happened in a solid four-day chunk of time from a Thursday to Sunday, but that doesn’t seem to hold up to scrutiny.
Good catch. That part of the movie is when I started checking my DVD, so I was a little fuzzy on that. Basically, as soon as Esmeralda started talking, I rolled my eyes and popped in the DVD.
Whoa, ease off the throttle there big fella. No need to drag insults or politics into the Cafe. (The politics being that likening me to the Bush administration is an insult.)
I disagree with this completely. Jules covers up a homicide after he reaches enlightenment, endangering his friend’s marriage in the process. All’s well that ends well, but I’d hardly call Jules’s decisions “right”. Especially considering that he could have saved everyone in the diner from being robbed, but he gave that robbery his own personal stamp of approval, letting them leave with everybody’s money except Vincent.
As far as Butch being “not a bitch”, I read Butch as a definite bitch. To wit:
He throws a nice little bitchy tantrum when he realized that Fabienne forgot the watch. Throwing the tv across the room while screaming “stupid whore” at her is a bitch move.
He intentionally screwed Wallace by agreeing to throw the fight and then not doing so. First, why does Wallace think he can be trusted to go down in the fifth? Gotta be some punk in him to work with in order for Wallace to think he would do it. But it was all a premeditated plan, where he intended to win, pocket the money and run away and hide like a punk-ass bitch.
Taking the entire section of movie involving Butch, I wouldn’t exactly classify him as a bitch, but I do consider him to be a scumbag. Easily one that would key somebody’s car. I don’t see much difference between keying a car and his tv-smashing tantrum.
I mean, really, to hold up anyone from Pulp Fiction as being a moral guy is bordering on the absurd. They certainly have their own personal value system, but calling them moral for that might be a stretch. Morality generally involves not killing people.
Actually, here’s another example of being a bitch, this time from Vincent. When he’s holding the unconscious Mia on Lance’s doorstep, he says “If she dies, I will be forced to tell Marcellus that you let her die on your lawn.” Maybe he would, maybe he wouldn’t, but that’s a bitch thing to do, and shows that even Vincent is capable of devolving into being a punk when the situation calls for it.
Butch clearly has anger issues, and he left the titty bar quite pissed off. I just don’t see it as a stretch.
I bet you can’t.
My motivation in making the timeline was simply because I wanted to. Somebody upthread was wondering aloud what the earliest and latest scenes were, and I just wanted to write down for my own edification what the actual timeline was, and what narrative hints were in the movie to fill it in with.
Your big objection seems to be with “the other day” referring to just yesterday. Keep in mind that the sun had set, risen, and set again in this timespan. I find it to be a very common and human thing to mix up how long ago recent events occurred. Sitting down to dinner on Wednesday night, someone recalling something that happened early Tuesday morning might be very likely to refer to it as the other day.
Mia saying the other night, however, is a bit of a different animal, because that generally wouldn’t refer to last night. Yesterday morning, however, is pretty darn close to “the other day” once the sun goes down.
Mostly, I think, people are tossing around the pet theory of Butch keying Vincent’s car because it’s fun. I know I’m not taking it very seriously. Certainly not as seriously as you seem to be taking the counter position. (You began by attacking me instead of my position, for example.)
Hate to break everyone’s bubble, but Mia does NOT say “the other night.” I just checked the DVD and verified that all she says is, “I never thanked you for dinner.”
True, she does look too healthy to have just O.D.'d the previous evening. On the other hand, it’s pretty rare for junkies to be up walking around just an hour or two after receiving an adrenaline shot to the heart to stop a cardiac arrest. (Tarantino likes to take liberties in that regard, it seems.)
Some more notes on the timeline:
It’s 8:20 a.m. when Jules, Vincent & the dead body arrive at Jimmy’s house; or at least it is during the “Dead Nigger Storage” conversation, where you can see the clock on the kitchen wall.
Driving from Toluca Lake to North Hollywood, disposing of a body, taking a cab to Hawthorne (south of Inglewood), eating, foiling a robbery, and somehow finding transportation to Marcellus’ titty bar all in 90 minutes seems foolishly optimistic. Waiting for the cab would take nearly 30 minutes alone, and it’s at least another 30 minute drive from The Valley to Hawthorne. They probably didn’t arrive at the bar until early afternoon, and possibly later.
I always had the impression that Butch’s fight took place several days, if not weeks, after Vince & Mia’s date/The Bonnie Situation/etc.
Not really. When Butch finds out that Floyd’s dead, he stops in his tracks, and quietly whispers, “Sorry about that, Floyd.” It’s clear to me that he’s at least momentarily upset about killing the guy (and certainly, it wasn’t his intent to do so.) Later on, his line to cab driver – “I don’t feel the least bit bad about it” – is merely bravado.
It’s just a random Crazy Credit, like “Long Haired Yuppie Scum”.
Hey, maybe it was Long Haired Yuppie Scum who keyed Vince’s car! The evidence is compelling, I tell ya!
Methinks that the premonition thing is a biiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiig stretch. However, my own interpretation may be just as…confused?
I didn’t see Vincent as being particularly hostile at the outset of this encounter. I just saw him as being curious and looking directly at Butch, who gets all bad. The “you looking at something, friend?” is an understood challenge, and that’s when Vincent gets tough.
That’s my take.
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No, he reached enlightenment in the diner. He was sitting there eating his muffin when he suddenly had what alcoholics refer to as a moment of clarity. Granted, that moment was brought about by what happened in Frank Whaley’s apartment, but Jules didn’t make the connection until after Marvin had been disposed of.
I doubt that he could have prevented the robbery without bloodshed. It seems consistant with jules’ concept of enlightenment that the loss of a few wallets and cell phones is preferable to gunplay. Remember that he initially gave up his own wallet willingly and still gave up his money even after getting the upper hand. Given his background I chalk this up to an “honor among theives” theory that he incorporated into his enlightenment, which also explains why he couldn’t give up the breifcase. Loyalty is a value that would be worth killing for in such a system.
The last thing Vince and Mia do after the ‘date/not date’ is shake hands on a promise to not ever tell anyone about what happened. Out on the Great Plains before the skin is pierced and the Rain Dance begins they say that actions speak louder than words, and Mia speaks volumes to fill the comfortable silence. “The only thing Antwan ever touched of mine was my hand, when he shook it. I met Antwan once – at my wedding – then never again. The truth is, nobody knows why Marsellus tossed Tony Rocky Horror out of that window except Marsellus and Tony Rocky Horror. But when you scamps get together, you’re worse than a sewing circle.” So maybe Mrs Wallace is hiding something. Is the cat out of the bag?
It always gives me the willies when someone revives a thread I don’t remember starting.
Since I first posted this thread I’ve finished my PhD., gotten a real job, moved states twice, gotten married, had a kid, renovated a house, and written five novels.
Jumping in on an old thread here but I think the point was to show that both Butch and Vincent were acting like assholes. They were each looking for a fight.
Butch initially figured he could challenge Vincent because he’s bigger than Vincent. Vincent figured he could challenge Butch because he worked for Marsellus Wallace and they were in his bar. Each guy thought he had an unfair advantage over the other and was acting like a bully.
Then Marsellus called out to Vincent and Butch realized he was outmatched. He had to back down. (Tarantino explicitly said this in his notes in the script.) So going out and keying Vincent’s car in retaliation was in keeping with his character.
It’s the same thing with the apartment scene later on. Vincent planned on ambushing Butch. But Butch instead caught Vincent with his pants down.
The two scenes were essentially mirror images. Neither man wanted a fair fight. They each treated the other one as a loser they could push around. In the first scene, Butch though he had a clear advantage but it turned on him and Vincent had the advantage. In the second scene, the roles were reversed. And in both cases, it was Marsellus Wallace who turned the advantage around; by his presence in the first scene and by his absence in the second scene.
He’s a fucking criminal too. Why would he do such a thing and call unnecessary attention to himself?
*"On the news tonight, a foiled robbery at a diner. Security cameras took **these ****pictures *of the anonymous Good Samaritan who stopped the bandits in their tracks before leaving the scene with a companion…"
The scene in the dinner is Jules’s first action in “walking the earth”. Jules has quit being a gangster already, and money means nothing to him now. The suitcase is a different story.