In safe orbit around a black hole

Let’s say mankind can generate some plot device that puts us in a stable orbit around a black hole. Let’s call it a teleporter. The existing space agencies of the world today combine to send a space vessel thru that device into a region of space much closer to a black hole than earth. I’m not good with space distances, but lets just say its a kind distance away from a stellar mass black hole that we can get our ship to. What would you guess we might learn, hanging around the edge of such a space nightmare? Could we even do that at all? My hope would be ultimately that we could pierce the knowledge bubble surrounding the event horizon somehow, but paces for races, I’m a patient guy…

Consider that this fancy teleporter can teleport a small building without any launch constraints, so you can afford to send a very respectable setup and lots of crew. You will be teleporting from earth directly, and can teleport back but only to an earth based beacon. My main question is would we come away from this knowing much more about black holes than we do today - things like temperatures, pressures and the different states of matter? Forgetting about the R&D needed for the spaceship itself for a moment, I mean in essence are there any low hanging fruit mysteries about black holes we could be taking jabs at with todays tech?

As a bonus event, the teleporter can deliver you to any one type of blackhole that we currently know of, so you could take a trip to the super huge one in the middle of Milky Way if you wanted. Actually the really big ones might be safer to be in orbit around, but one would be further from the goodies…

What are our hopes and dreams here people?

I’m sure we would learn an awful lot from teleporting some probes and research stations near a black hole… but holy fuck we’ve got a teleporter! That’s kind of more interesting. I think colonising earth like planets would take priority over researching black holes?

Unless for some reason your teleporter can only take us to the close vicinity of black holes?

Of course we could learn plenty by being so close to a black hole, but it’s literally impossible to say what we could learn. The difficulty is that we think we understand black holes quite well. We still study them every chance we get, because there’s the possibility that our understanding is off in some subtle way… but so far, every observation we’ve done has simply served to confirm what we already thought was true.

If we could pick a black hole of any type to get close to and study, we’d want to pick a very small one, not a very large one. That’s where we’d have the best hope of learning something about quantum gravity, which we don’t understand well at all. And at the very least, we could check our understanding of Hawking radiation, which is basically impossible for a large hole since they’re so cold and faint.

Fixed entry and exit, I’m afraid.

A macroscopic black hole would have an accretion disk, probably with a strong magnetic field, and high energy jets. We’d be able to observe plasma in conditions we’ve never seen up close (higher temperature, stronger magnetic field, higher speed flows, etc).

I can’t name a “known unknown” that would be solved by such an observation though. It’s the kind of observations that will give us new mysteries to solve. (Which I think is the most exciting kind of science observation.)

We would be able to learn more about high energy physics and them particles … what are they called, Higg’s Particles or something. The things we’re doing with the Large Hayron Collinder-thing, but on a grand scale.

We could study the effects on the human biology in such an environment, but I don’t think we would want to advertise that though. We don’t know yet what a heavy dose of pions would do to basic biology. Who knows, maybe black holes are made of cheese after all.

I think the biggest technology advance here would be building teleporters, we’d learn a lot about that with this project.

Then we find out that black holes are the remains of civilizations that invented teleporters.

:smiley:

The most obvious thing we’d be able to study would be frame dragging, and all sort of interesting large scale, high energy magnetohydrodynamic phenomena coming from the accretion disk.

I think we should then put the teleporter at the town transfer station, and then move the town’s garbage directly to the black hole. (The savings on landfill disposal fees would more than recoup the cost of the R&D necessary to develop the teleporter.)

And if you want to get all sciencey about this, we could start by measuring the diameter of the black hole initially and then see how many tons of garbage does it take to double the diameter.

You can calculate that easily.

Although black holes sound very interesting and mysterious in science fiction, they are actually probably one of the least interesting celestial objects to study, simply because their actual properties are pretty minimal and their behavior at the macroscopic level is already very well characterized under General Relativity; note that as long as you are far enough away that your trajectory doesn’t pass through the ergosphere of the black hole, from a gravitational standpoint it may as well just be a really big star. Where black holes get interesting is at the interface (event horizon) where the effects of gravity and the other forces (nuclear and electromagnetic) have influence at close to the same order of magnitude, which gives rise to a number of phenomena, chiefly so-called Hawking radiation, that we cannot otherwise reproduce in any terrestrial environment. This may also give us other insight into how gravity acts at a quantum scale provided we could get close enough to observe the effects.

Unfortunately, for a stellar mass black hole that means being able to tolerate extreme gravity gradients that are unsurviveable. With a much larger supermassive black hole, like that in the center of spiral galaxies, the definition of the event horizon is much less well defined and those events only occur very infrequently compared to the area of the surface of the event horizon, hence why Chonos would select the smallest, rather than the largest black holes. Another consideration is that the radiation environment in the plane of rotation of a large black hole is very likely lethal if it has acquired enough mass to make a accretion disk; it would essentially be like being in a large plasma chamber with spontaneous generation of high energy X-rays from bremsstrahlung effects and other interactions with the local magnetic field. It would be better from an observational standpoint to be stationary above the plane of rotation of the black hole, but then you’d obviously need some way to maintain position against the acceelration of the hole’s gravity that isn’t dervied from a crappy Disney movie.

Although the energies and electrohydrodynamic conditions around a stellar mass black hole are much higher than what we can produce in a lab today, in practice it may not be nearly as useful to observe just because we would have no control over the location where specific phenomena occur. Although the energies produced by particle collisions in the Large Hadron Collider are serveral orders of magnitude below the what we see from very high energy cosmic rays in the upper atmosphere, with the LHC we can cause the collisions to occur at very specific locations where we have detectors by controlling the beam with powerful magnets. Even then, billions of collisions are required to statistically confirm the creation of the Higgs boson or pentaquark particles, which is why researchers had to wait for years of operation before announcing their discoveries. Actually what is seen is not the particles themselves, as they don’t look like anything special and last only tiny fractions of a picosecond, but the characteristic debris of their decay, which is like sifting through a landfill looking to reconstruct a package of gum wrappers. (BTW, this has resulted in computational systems and methods to search enormous datasets for very small and infrequent patterns using advance statistical procedures, which has given rise to the ‘Big Data’ revolution, massively parallel data processing, high throughput large data handling, and very sophisticated data visualization systems; basically all of the technology used in modern day Internet commerce, global climate simulation and visualization, and an entire host of other applications. Next time some ignornant fool bitches about the billions of dollars “wasted” on the LHC and the search for fundamental particles, you can point out that nearly all of the supporting technology translated directly into commercial applications that now support multi-billion dollar industries.)

Examination of effects at the ergosphere of a fast rotating black hole also may be very useful in confirming or refining some of the more esoteric predicitons arising from theoretical and computational models of Einstein gravity and general relativity theory, but since you have a teleporter that instantaneously transports you across non-local distances you’ve implicitly kind of put a kink in some of the underlying assumptions of general relativity to begin with, which is always a problem when you introduce technomagical processes into an otherwise rational universe. The intellectual gyrations you have to go through to explain why you can’t simply beam the away team back at the first sign of trouble, or better yet, just transmit disposable clones of critical crew members is just about the least of the gaping plot holes given birth by poorly thought out scriptwriting conceits.

The most intersting objects to examine from a purely scientific perspective, other than enormous large scale cosmic structures, would be neutron stars and other objects balanced on the narrow edge between gravity and particle physics as we currently understand them. While black holes are mathematically simple–almost trivial in the case of the Schwartzchild metric, and easy enough to solve in a linearized form for simple Kerr metrics–objects that are composed of very densified but discrete particles may have some phenomenally interesting properties and interactions which could allow us to better understand the early evolution of the universe.

On a side note, while having a teleporter might seem to be appealing in terms of the ability to colonize other planets, the reality is that even if terrestrial-type planets (rocky worlds in the assumed habitable zone of a F, G, or K class star) are common, the precise conditions to support human and Earth life–specifically the atmospheric composition, balance of temperature variation, and a well-governed and stable hydrologic cycle–are likely to be vanishingly rare. The notion of finding a planet that we can live on unprotected is almost wholly improbable. It makes much more sense to develop the technology and infrastructure to create artificial habitable structures in space that use materials efficiently and have a stable, self-governing thermodynamic and hydrological cycle, or alternatively, alter our own bodies to be able to tolerate a much wider variety of environmental conditions and hazards without rapidly breaking down and collapsing just because we don’t have access to piddling resources like an oxygen/nitrogen atmosphere or uncontaminated water.

Stranger

But the device as posited would put the garbage in a stable orbit around the black hole. You would need to expend a lot of rocket fuel to bleed off the orbital velocity and let it actually fall in. It would probably be easier to just launch it from the Earth into the sun.

I’d wager there’d be a strong urge to go to the black hole and throw things into it.

Sure, you can calculate this if you really want. But wouldn’t throwing stuff at it be much more fun? How about a cosmic basketball game (except the ball doesn’t come out of the hoop)?

This would cause the Earth itself to gradually (or not-so-gradually) radiate away to nothing as the black hole increases in size and mass – a sort of reverse Hawking radiation.

What’s the big deal with a stable orbit around a black hole? I mean, if you had an earth-mass black hole, your orbits would be the same speeds and radii that they are now, and would be WAY outside the event horizon (Schwarzchild radius), of roughly 9mm.

So more like the last hole at a mini-golf course, the one that collects and keeps your ball. :frowning:

For a rotating black hole, you also need to be outside the ergosphere (the portion of spacetime being “dragged” along with the hole’s rotation). Again, for a stellar mass black hole rotating with a plausible angular momentum this probably isn’t an issue, as the gravitational gradients and tidal forces as this distance will probably shred your spacecraft long before entering the ergosphere. Outside of the ergosphere, the black hole can essentially be treated as a point mass just as you can (at a first approximation) with any planetary or solar mass in terms of orbital arguments.

Stranger