I’m amazed that there’s even a decision to be made about whether to vote in something like a Presidential election.
I mean I can see someone not going out of their way to vote for school board members, especially if they don’t have kids, the kids aren’t in that district, or the kids are grown up. Or maybe not voting for the local community college trustees.
But pretty much all the other elections directly affect you, so you should vote.
I am returning more to try to see if I can help us understand each other’s perspectives (not change them).
I was responding to this:
The difference to the next election is the sum of all of votes changing from one group to another including one or the other candidate or not voting.
You are considering the possibility of flipping non-voters who disapprove of Biden’s policy here (and would disapprove of Trump’s as much if not more) to voting for Biden. That is a group to consider. But not the only possible impact.
Now for my understanding of your perspective?
What actions would be the bare minimum for you to consider it a reversing of course?
Would that action, at this point, be sufficient to get you to vote for Biden? (It would surprise me if so, but I am sometimes surprised.) Or would that level of reversal be too little too late at this point?
Do you think that the action sufficient for you to consider it a reversal would have zero impact in the other direction?
Accept as fact for this discussion your belief that Biden has not been working towards a ceasefire: as a hypothetical would delivering one have any efficacy on decreasing the immediate salience of events in Gaza to some and increase the possibility of a focus on reproductive rights, the imperial presidency, climate change, or any other two to three big items?
…I wasn’t really considering anything. Just pointing out that the majority of Democrats overwhelmingly disapprove of the course the administration are on, and independents have moved that way as well.
It doesn’t work like that.
Earlier in the thread this was said:
“Vote for Biden because, with a Democratic congress, he would raise the minimum wage, establish universal health care, codify the right to reproductive health care, maintain the rule of law, and the many, many other good and progressive things that Biden has endorsed.”
But how much of this are things that Biden would actually do, and how much of it is simply “aspirational?” Because Biden is never going to establish universal healthcare. There is no strategy to overcome the supremes. There really isn’t a plan to codify reproductive healthcare.
These are empty promises. And everyone knows it. Biden isn’t using “his diplomatic tools to get that ceasefire across the line.” He’s going to keep on doing exactly what he’s been doing for the last nine months.
Its just people saying stuff.
My position is a simple one. Give people something to vote for. Marginalised folk move heaven and earth every single election to sometimes get Democrats across the line. And once they get power, they get forgotten about.
Forget about “messaging.” Forget about “bare minimums.” Actually give the voters something to vote for. Because I don’t think “not Trump” is going to be enough.
And I’m not going to be discussing any hypothetical regarding Gaza. The only reason I mentioned it was because I was pushed to explain my feelings about Biden’s character.
It sure is for me.
I don’t like diet drinks, but I’ll take that over cyanide every time.
Sure, you may prefer Diet Coke over cyanide, but if 46% of other Americans prefer cyanide, and voted for cyanide, and the cyanide camp even won an election eight years ago, and Diet Coke is currently trailing or only tied with cyanide in the polls, are you confident Diet Coke will win the election?
…I mean, sure.
But there are millions of Americans that aren’t you.
And if the Democratic strategy only ever targets people like you, then the polling will look exactly the way it does at the moment. Its not as if what I’m suggesting is some radical departure of what one should expect from a political system. “Give people something to vote for” should be the norm at every election.
I’m going to vote for a hard working patriot that cares for the country and surrounds himself with like minded people. I’m NOT going to vote for a traitor.
So, ya see, Biden has given me something to vote for.
Okay. Do 75,000,000 other American voters see it the same way?
If they don’t see it, they’ve been asleep for 16 years. More really. Trump has been an asshole his entire life.
You can’t miss it. It’s in front of us always. Trump is a horrible, horrible person.
Trump promises revenge on his opponents. That is the policy he is running on.
…and I think that Biden has enabled a genocide, helped push the Democrats further from the centre to the right, turned a blind eye to the rise of the “police state”, who has surrounded himself with some horrible people.
That doesn’t mean that Trump isn’t orders of magnitude worse. But Biden isn’t a saint. And people honestly have to get over the idea that not everyone thinks he’s the bees knees. Right now he is a terrible candidate. His performance on the debate stage wasn’t an aberration. He was the right person at the right time at the last election. He’s probably the best bet to beat Trump now. But you have to acknowledge that many progressive voters hate him. For good reason. And running on his character ain’t ever going to turn them around. They don’t see him the way that you see him.
And if the Democratic strategy is to “preach to the converted”, then you are guaranteed to lose.
There is a nightmare scenario where the Democrats lose the President, the House and the Senate. I think that’s a very real possibility. But if that happens: it isn’t going to be my fault. I’m inconsequential. I don’t even get a vote.
I laid out what I thought the stakes were back in 2020 shortly after Biden got elected. I argued that the Democrats had to change up the paradigm. That every election was important. Not just on the national stage. But city councils, school boards. Everybody had to step up. Everybody had to fight.
Instead we’ve seen the rise of cop cities, more people killed by police than ever before, brutal crushing of protest at campus’s, Mayor’s and Governors like Adams and Hochul who are Republican in every way except name.
Everybody is panicking now. But now its almost too late. People thought that when Trump lost last time, that was it. Back to normal. And you’ve sleepwalked right into the nightmare scenario.
All I’m doing is calling it as I see it. You are welcome to be angry at me. But if Trump wins the next election, it won’t be because people like me didn’t do enough.
I’ll just leave this here -
Perfect is the enemy of good is an aphorism which means insistence on perfection often prevents implementation of good improvements. Achieving absolute perfection may be impossible; one should not let the struggle for perfection stand in the way of appreciating or executing on something that is imperfect but still of value.
This
+1
…quoting Wikipedia is all well and good.
But it’s a terrible Democratic strategy for winning the next election. Nobody expects Biden to be “perfect.” But you painted him as a saint. He most certainly is not in my eyes. If you don’t want to listen to anything I’ve got to say, that’s fine. Just don’t blame me if Biden loses the election.
I’ll just leave this here -
Perfect is the enemy of good is an aphorism which means insistence on perfection often prevents implementation of good improvements. Achieving absolute perfection may be impossible; one should not let the struggle for perfection stand in the way of appreciating or executing on something that is imperfect but still of value.
Huh???
…when I think of Biden, I don’t think of this.
As has been shown, Trump is a criminal, and surrounds himself with criminals.
Trump fraternizes with with leaders of hostile countries and extorts leaders of friendly countries.
This is not someone I want for president.
…and again: this isn’t about you.
If this thread were about the best Democratic strategy to get enipla out to vote for Biden, they’ve got it absolutely nailed.
All I’m suggesting is that I don’t think this will be enough to win the next election. And if it isn’t, then don’t blame me. It’s not as if I didn’t give you enough warning.
The world needs Biden to win for the sake of democracy. He has to decisively beat Trump and the Democrats need to also hold the Senate and win the House.
But the world also needs to hold Biden and the Democrats to account. Because they are beholden to donors and corporate interests and pay lip-service to some of the biggest issues facing America and the world.
…for the sake of clarity, if people think that I posted here just to complain about Biden, then you are very much missing the point.
I’m trying to give you an insight into what many of you are trying to ignore. That in some progressive circles, Biden is hated. When I used the g*nocide word before, that wasn’t a word I chose lightly. If you think of all of the things that the word connotes, that is exactly what they think Biden enables.
On top of that you have to deal with voter suppression. And just how tired people are who have to fight obstacle after obstacle just to even be able to cast a vote, and then after they help the Democrats get over the line, they promptly get abandoned until its time to do it all over again.
The closest anyone has been able to articulate a vision for a second-term Biden was a policy platform of things that aren’t actually on his platform. “Vote on character.” “Do you want Trump to be President?” This isn’t a platform.
All I’m arguing is that I don’t think this is good enough. The Democrats are simply going through the motions. And I think if you want to win the next election, you’ve got to do more than that.
From reading BB’s posts in the Israel/Hamas war threads I would guess this is mostly about the fact that Biden has not sent troops to expel the Israeli’s from Gaza. And, he hasn’t threated them with a nuke if they don’t leave Hamas alone. Thus, he has a very bad character. Or something.
A massive difference indeed. Biden would be throwing away at least half of the Jewish vote.