India Vs England Test Series

Seems this one has flown under the radar a bit. Good to see Cook and Prior take the game into 5th day, but with no-one else contributing much I’m expecting another drubbing. Frankly, I can’t see us winning a test, and just hope we can get something positive out of the series.

Disappointing that Panesar isn’t playing. What is the logic of not playing our two best spinners in India? Was Panesar out of form in the warm-up matches?

My prediction? a continued heroic stand by Cook and Prior taking the lead to 175+ by an hour after lunch.
India, totally demoralised by now, get a full dose of wild Swann fever and capitulate with 10 overs to spare.

So let it be written.

Or…we get bowled out for another 40 runs and India knock them off in 20-20 style. Either option is equally likely.

Can I just add that, for all his ability, I wouldn’t have picked KP for this tour, as yet he has done nothing to sway me from that opinion.

this pitch assisted bowlers at the start of days and was unhelpful in the last sessions. England’s selection was strange - not picking 2 frontline spinners, leaving Morgan out and going for Bell. plus they lost the toss. They could have still drawn the match if Cook and Prior gone on till lunch on last day.

I would go for Broad, Finn, Swann and Panesar as the 4 frontline bowlers.

Hadn’t flown under the radar for me - I just didn’t want to talk about it. Cook and Prior (and possibly Compton in the second innings) notwithstanding, this was a dire, dire performance from selection on down.

They should have picked Panesar. Fat Sam is not a test match quality spinner - the second spinner should have been an attacking option, not a holding player.

Losing the toss didn’t help but then they proceeded to bowl dross for the opening session, allowig the game to almost immediately be taken away from them. It wasn’t quite as bad as Harmison with ball 1 of the 06/07 Ashes but it was pretty damn close. Broad, in particular, bowled like a drain and Bresnan is fine when there is something happening at the other end and he can bowl dry - not when there is nothing happening from the pitch or at the other end. Catching was terrible too - shelling chances all over the place.

Our batting in the first innings was absolutely terrible. Compton looked all at sea but gets a bit of a pass for digging in during the second innings. He’s not going to score quickly but he seems like he has the right temperament to deny himself the shots that will get him out. Trott looked woeful, surpassed only by Pietersen who has a certain amount of method (get down the track, try to take lbw out of the equation) but looked in the grip of madness when trying to lay bat on ball. Fat Sam got sawn off in both innings, so gets a pass. Cook and Prior, obviously were immaculate.

New paragraph for this as I can’t emphasise it enough. Ian Bell should not play again until he gets his head right. The shot he played to get out first ball in the first innings was the most moronic shot I have ever seen a test match bat play - certainly by someone with an average over 40. At 69-4 in reply to 500+, you should never play that shot. It’s not trying to establish yourself. It’s not trying to stamp your authority on the game. It’s utterly brainless. You probably shouldn’t be playing that shot at 369-4 chasing the Indian total. Understand this is just about shot selection. I haven’t even got on to the execution yet - which was also woeful. No control over the bat - witness how it turned in his hand on impact - head in the wrong place. FFS, he hadn’t even got far enough down to play that shot. Even then, there was a bailout option of just blocking the thing back - but no. Let’s go through with it anyway. He’s off for Test 2 to see his kid being born. He shouldn’t get back into the side when he comes back. A message needs to be sent that you’re responsible for your wicket and if you throw it away as needlessly as that, then you need to go and have a sit down.

Second innings we were OK ish but we’ve still only proved that 2 and a half of our batsmen (judgement reserved on Compton at the minute but positive signs in the second innings) can play spin in the subcontinent. We knew this would be an issue 12 months ago and nothing has been done to sort it out. This is compounded by the speed with which India knocked off the small target that they were set. They know what they are doing. We don’t. As simple as that.

Broad and Bresnan need to be dropped for the next game in my view. Finn to come in with Anderson as the pace options and Monty, Swann and Patel to spin it. It will weaken the batting line up somewhat but maybe the top order could do their job and score some runs in the knowledge that the lower order isn’t strong enough to help out. This is obviously just an armchair view - more than anything I need to see evidence that some thought has been put into selection (this isn’t anywhere else in the world: it’s India - look at what works for teams that succeed there and at least try to replicate it) and that the batsmen are keen to put some thought into the game.

ETA: Realised I have been most unsporting and not said anything about India. Well, they bossed us from ball one. Miles better than us and a thoroughly deserved win. Goot to see they have unearthed a new opener too. Pujara looks real class. Also thought that they did a good job with the bowling tactics, keeping a foot on the throat at all times. I just wish they would stop appealing for everything. This opposition to DRS is obviously just a plot to try and pressure the umpires. If they are so adamant something is out, let’s have a look at the DRS and we’ll find out.

Nice read.
Regarding DRS, I think BCCI and some senior Indian players are idiots to not let it come through. The only reasonable argument against it is that it is not cost effective. But for high profile series’ like this one, it should be there. Take a look at Dhoni arguing with the umpire when he took an objection to over-appealing:

would not have happened if DRS was there.

As an Indian fan, I am excited abt younger batsmen - Kohli and Pujara. Although the greater challenge for them would come when they tour outside the sub-continent.

Hell at least England made it to the final day. New Zealand on the other hand…

Actually the wide variations in playing conditions is one of the things I like best about cricket. You can be kings of your own backyard but can you play on a totally different surface?

Not much to add to Cumbrian’s masterful summation. Cook, unflappable though he appears to be, must be feeling a little weight bearing down on his shoulders - not only does he have to captain what is still presumably slightly sensitive dressing room, he also has to score the lion’s share of his team’s runs if he doesn’t want his first series as permanent captain to be remembered as a bad joke.

Apparently he hinted at the press conference that they felt maybe they hadn’t got the balance of the side right after all. So we should at least see Monty in by Friday. Dhoni apparently said he thought England had made the right team choice, demonstrating an impressive talent for mind games.

Wish I’d seen more of it - Pujara seems to be worth watching.

So much for picking Finn for Test 2. He’s just been ruled out with injury. I guess this means that Bresnan will be the one to make way for Monty - on the grounds that the selection committee seem to have quite a bit of faith in Broad.

From the Indian side, Yadav is outof 2nd test due to injury. Ishant Sharma, the likely replacement.

Fair enough. :wink: The worrying thing for me is that the team as a whole is going backwards, losing confidence rather than adapting to the conditions. Early in the year, it was just the batting that let us down. Now the bowlers are struggling, and as a consequence fielding standards have dropped. There is no shame in losing to India, but it’s depressing when we can’t compete at all.

Sehwag run-a-ball century deserves a mention, he’s been out of form for some time.

Flower admits they mis-read the pitch and Panesar should have played. I guess Bairstow will come in for Bell, but it seems the England management have little confidence in his ability to play spin. He was all at sea on the ODI tour of India last year. Jadeja got him out all four times.

new zealand actually ran india very close in the 2nd testin Bangalore. They batted 1st in that match which helped. Their fast bowlers were very good I thought, Southee especially.

Y’know, while on balance I support the DRS, and don’t for a moment think the BCCI is being sensible, the issue has definitely opened up some serious question marks over the technology for me. For one thing, it was developed as a viewer aid by broadcasters, not a decision support system by administrators. For another, there has never been an independent validation of the accuracy of the technology used. Hawkeye, Hotspot etc. Why on earth doesn’t the ICC commission an independent review? And if they have, would someone be so kind as to point me towards it?

Maybe, but last week they collapsed against Sri Lankato lose by 10 wickets. Southee did bowl well in Sri Lanka’s first innings though.

I don’t think anything’s changed since you raised this last December. And proper testing really needs to be done.

yes, I am all for review of DRS especially hotspot coz sometimes it doesn’t show clear edges. I want to change how review system works. One example:

Lets say the umpire gives not out on LBW appeal, hawkeye shows ball hitting the stumps but not 50% or more of the ball within 50% the stumps required to over turn the decision. In such case, the review shouldn’t be cut from appealing side because it was a good review. Only cut it when the ball is shown to be completely missing the stumps. There are 2 unsuccessful reviews allowed per innings, so it confuses the captain when to take or not take the review so he might miss potentially successful review. This might be one reason why BCCI and dhoni aren’t going for DRS currently. Another option is that 3rd or 4th umpire examines all close decisions by himself and teams do not have to ‘take’ reviews. This might be worth trying but I prefer former option.

oh yes, They are always capable of such mess-ups in batting. I know these things maybe quite frustrating and disappointing for a fan because they show flashes of individual brilliance every now n then. But in One day cricket - they are far better than they are in tests.

India wins toss and bats first no surprise. Pitch will have moisture for the 1st hour. Maybe Engalnd can exploit it.
India playing with just 1 fast bowler. Bhajji in for Yadav.
Bairstow in for Bell and Panesar for Bresnen.
100th test for sehwag.

Ack. I had no memory of doing that. I’m very impressed that you remembered, and apologise for sounding like a one trick. I don’t know why the testing aspect doesn’t get more airtime. If they get proper testing, and publicise the results, it would be a very good stick to beat the BCCI with. Do you, Cumbrian and others support use of the Hawkeye anyway, even without independent validation?

Meanwhile, Tendulkar is continuing his terrible run. This time at home. He really needs a big score soon if he doesn’t want this bad patch to devolve into a sorry end to his career.

I do for one.

It is never going to be perfect but it does cut out the most egregious howlers most of the time.
I’m all for tweaking the use of it though, that is obviously going to be necessary as the technology matures. You are never going to get a foolproof system but I think a process of testing, technological advancement and pragmatic rule-tweaking by the ICC is the way to go. Full marks to cricket for pushing in the right direction so far.

On the subject of independent testing, I seem to recall that FIFA have given the go-ahead for goal line technology trials with two different companies. One of which is Hawkeye. It’ll be interesting to see how that progresses.

For howlers - Why not just have DRS using video replays in the case of things that can be judged by them - like inside edges for LBWs, missed no balls etc. Leave the predictive and technology based aspects until the tech involved has been tested?

I agree it’s never going to be perfect. But my issue is that we don’t even know how good or bad it is, and there seems to be no system to establish whether the technology is supremely accurate, bad, or somewhere in between and improving.

And the ICC just doesn’t seem to be taking the tack of “Look, we got these scientists to run these tests, and this is what they say about the accuracy of the system”. And I don’t understand why they don’t. That approach has merit even if the BCCI weren’t being a stupid stick in the mud.

That is in fact interesting. I don’t know how well tests on Football specific questions ("did the football cross this imaginary plane? ") would translate to cricket ones (“Would the cricket ball swing or spin or otherwise go on to hit the stumps”). But just how they proceed with trials and the issues they face ought to be educational.

Also, Pujara and a few rear-guard actions seem to have saved Dhoni extreme embarrassment, but England have shown that they can attack the Indian line up too. Should be an interesting match.

A much better day for us, and good to see Panesar making an impact. However, bear in mind, in twelve test innings on Asian pitches this year, we’ve only passed 300 twice. Even from here, the odds of us taking a first innings lead are not great.