Are the Yeshiva University Fighting Kikes going to be affected by this ban?
Hope Dave Chapelle is reading this – he’s one of the few folks in entertainment that could pull a schtick like this off.
Leftist memos? Hunh. And all this time I’ve thought it was all that early childhood brainwashing from gramma. Thanks for setting me straight, Lib!
I have no idea if there are any “Mayans” or “Zapatistas” out there but there are the San Diego State Aztecs, the San Diego Toreros and the the UC Santa Barbara Gauchos.
On behalf of all the maligned gastropod species, I hereby demand that the NCAA force the University of California at Santa Cruz to change their mascot immediately.
To my knowledge, FSU has never claimed to have the support of the Seminole Nation of Oklahoma.
I found this
[quote]
(http://www.tallahassee.com/mld/tallahassee/news/local/12317031.htm) interesting:
Are individual Indian tribes racially different or would an appropriate analogy be not calling a team the N-bomb but instead referring to them as the Ghanans or such?
IANA genticist, but I believe that your analogy is more or less correct.
Nope, FSU never has made that claim. The agreements they have are with the Seminole Tribe of Florida.
Nor did I make any such claim. I stated that they would like for you to believe that they have the support of “The Seminoles” as a whole, not that the Seminole Nation of Oklahoma is against their use of the name, while the smaller Seminole Tribe of Florida (who also gets a ton of benefits for agreeing to its use) is okay with it. The title of their press release is “Florida State University Thanks Seminoles For Historic Vote Of Support”, not some Seminoles, not Florida Seminoles, but Seminoles as a whole. Even their alumni are led down that path, as evidenced above when Snowboarder Bo stated: “As was pointed out by kidchameleon, Florida State University not only has the permission of the Seminole Indians to use their name, but their express approval.” I’m not taking a side one way or another on their use of the name, I’m just stating that they do not have universal support of Seminoles as a whole to use it, and in fact, the largest organization of Seminoles is against it.
[QUOTE]
I found this
I found this quote from this article in the independent FSU student newspaper interesting, too:
I don’t care whether one finds fault with FSU’s usage of the term Seminole or not. I’m simply pointing out that they do not have the permission of even the majority of Seminoles to use it, no matter how they might make it sound.
I wonder if Mr. Narcomey has a cite for that. It certianly seems to conflict the information posted by zamboniracer in post #19 of this thread.
Okay, fair enough. However, they do have the permission of the Seminoles that also have Florida in their name.
Now that offends me. My biological father actually looks exactly like Chief Wahoo. I’m a Cherokee/Creek and I have no problem with Chief Wahoo or anyone else.
Sorry, dude, but I wasn’t trying to be misleading. The state of Florida has only one tribe of indians that use the name Seminole. It’s a state university. Please note that I did not say “all Seminoles”. At FSU, and in the state of Florida, we rarely if ever discuss the Seminole Nation, since they are a thousand miles away and we have no affiliation with them, legally, financially, culturally, regionally, or geographically.
Again, my apologies if anyone felt I was being misleading. It was never my intent.
You didn’t say “some Seminoles” either. You called them “the Seminoles”, which to me implies Seminoles as a whole. It’s not that big of a deal to me, but it is to FSU. Do you honestly think they’re not aware of the Oklahoma Seminoles and their stance on FSU’s usage of the name?
Nor do you discuss the “Florida Seminoles”, as you and I both know how bad that sounds to an FSU fan. You speak of Seminoles, in general. Besides, the issue is whether FSU has the full and tacit approval to use the Seminole name. Their press releases labor on about the fact that they have permission from the Seminoles, and can’t understand why the NCAA can’t appreciate that. The thing is, the NCAA is fully aware of the Seminole Nation of Oklahoma, and their stance on the issue (as is FSU, even if they pretend not to).
It’s the school that is attempting to be misleading. You’re only guilty of repeating what kidchameleon stated, who is only guilty of not being aware that there was indeed contention surrounding the use of the name.
Almost 100 posts and no mention of this? Maybe I’m overly sensitive and a kerazy PC liberal, but if I went to get a drink of water and saw this (with no accompanying plaque explaining its origins) I might be a bit uncomfortable.
He’s a representative of the Seminole Nation of Oklahoma, and while he might not speak for each individual Seminole, without exception, I’m going to assume he’s at least echoing the sentiments of a large portion of the people he represents, until shown otherwise.
To be honest, I can fully understand why a large number of randomly selected Indians would be okay with it, yet others not so much. In many parts of the country, there is little racism against the Indian people, as they are often in small enough numbers that they aren’t the target. In some states, such as Oklahoma, South Dakota, etc., this is not the case, and anti-Indian bigotry is far more common than other types. In fact, OU was one of the first schools with an Indian mascot to voluntary stop using it, as a show of understanding.
If they called themselves the Floridan Seminoles, this might fly with the NCAA. They’d rather be caught dead than call themselves such.
Actually, I just went back and looked at the news story I cited again, and the original press release, and I’m sorry to have to tell you that you’re wrong, DMC.
from the same article I cited in post #61
from the original press release
All bold added by me.
The school makes it perfectly clear that we have the approval of, and an arrangement with, the Seminole Tribe of Florida.
As I said, in Florida, when people use the term Seminole(s) they mean the Seminole Tribe. When they mean the Seminole Nation of Oklahoma, that full title is used.
I think your misperception comes from just glancing at the headline and not reading the full news story. Headlines are brief, unfortunately, but everyone in Florida thinks “Seminole Tribe of Florida” when people say Seminole.
They had just recently been discovered, as they’d been covered up for a long time with metal plates. There are signs explaining the history of them, and the black community was split over the issue. Some wanted the signs to stay (with appropriate explanatory signage), while some wanted them removed. More info can be found here.
I have no idea why you think FSU would rather be caught dead than call themselves whatever you mentioned. Do you have a cite for that?
btw, state universities are known as “Blah-blah State”, while "University of"s are known as “Blah-blah” Team Name. Thus the University of Florida Gators are known as the Florida Gators.
For FSU to be the PC that you are stretching for, it would have to be the Florida State Florida Seminoles or the Florida State Seminole Tribe, both of which are cumbersome and unnecessarily repetitive. Unnecessarily because we are in Florida.
Now if a school in Georgia, which has no Seminole Indian population, wanted to use Seminole, then I think they would need to specify which faction they were aligned with, i.e. the Georgia Tech Seminole Tribe or the Georgia Seminole Nation of Oklahoma or somesuch.
Do you also believe that the executive branch never implied a relationship between 9/11, terrorism, and Iraq?
I understand you’re an alumni, and I understand you want the school to be correct, but they are quite clearly, and quite carefully, misleading the public. Yes, they never state explicitly “we have the approval of all Seminole organizations”, but the implication is quite clear. They use “Seminoles” and “Seminole Tribe of Florida” interchangeably, which they’re quite definitely not.
When FSU starts calling themselves the Florida State University Florida Seminoles, then their argument will stand. You don’t call them the Florida Seminoles, I don’t call them the Florida Seminoles. No one, other than some press release, would ever think to call them the Florida Seminoles. They are simply “the Seminoles”. Currently, the majority of Seminoles in this country, through their representatives, find FSU’s usage of the name offensive. That certainly doesn’t mean that FSU must, should, or even will change their mascot.
If the two blacks that live in North Dakota were both okay with the North Dakota State having a mascot named “the Niggers”, would that be okay? Many Seminoles find FSU’s usage of the name offensive. FSU would like to pretend otherwise.
Note to ND residents: There was no slight intended, as I don’t find your state to be racist, and other than being ungodly cold in the winter, is quite a nice place. It just has an extremely low population of blacks, so was useful for this exercise.