If you force a person to live in the city who would prefer to live in the country, then yes, that’s cruel. Likewise the reverse. If you open the door and your cats happen to choose to stay in, fine, that’s their choice. All of the cats who cohabit with my mom, though, would be getting out of the house even if we didn’t let them. And yes, they bring down sparrows occasionally, but even with three to four hunting cats in an urban backyard, there never seems to be a shortage of sparrows.
Of course cats eat birds, and birds eat worms, and birds eat other birds and what in gods name does this have to do with anything? Sure it’s not much fun when kitty brings a present home, but thats probably happened about 10 times during the 20+ years I have had cats. Animals kill, and sometimes eat eachother. hums the lion king theme off-tune
So…ummm…if the primary purpose of deciding a if a cat is indoors or outdoors is it’s happiness, how is this “completely different” than letting your dog choose if it wants to run free or not?
I’ve had indoor cats, I’ve had outdoor cats. Cats are not very happy campers when the neighbor dog tears off it’s ear, it gets FIV, or it get’s it’s paws amputated by a car. I’d never knock anyone that has an outdoor cat (unless they live on a busy street or some other patently unsafe situation) but I don’t think it is the best idea- especially outside of a rural setting.
My little Sputnik seems perfectly happy hanging around the house playing “sleep on Jennifer’s wrists as she tries to type”, “spin around in the office chair”, “knock the cup off the table” and even fetch (Nickie’s favorite game by far). When he got a little too curious about the outside world, I picked him up and took him for a walk around the block. When I came back, I had four claws digging into my neck, and one scared and shaky kitty. Cats can be perfectly happy inside, and considering that being inside is far better for it’s health, I’d keep any cat I had indoors unless I had a good reason (like mice) not to.
Off to IMHO.
I don’t think there’s a “one size fits all” answer to this question.
In some cases, it’s no big deal to let cats be entirely outdoor cats. I know plenty of people who live on farms who feed between one and two dozen “barn cats”. As said before, they’re tools on the farm, and most of them are strays who’d have much worse lives if the farmers didn’t feed them and let them hide in the barn in the winter/during the rain.
My parents live on an acre and a half in the suburbs and they have two indoor/outdoor cats. These cats are vaccinated, spayed, and well-fed. They come and go as they please. They’re also age 11 and 12 and are healthy as can be. Yes, they hunt field mice and rabbits, and the people in the neighborhood like that, because otherwise there’s a pretty serious rodent problem (when we moved into the house, it was literally infested with mice–'tis no longer). A lot of people have remarked to my parents that their gardens started looking a lot less chewed up after our cats started making the rounds. (I’ve never seen them catch a bird that wasn’t already seriously wounded, usually by flying into a window. This has happened maybe a dozen times in the last 10 years, between the two of them. They’re good hunters, but not fast enough to catch birds.)
(Question: if your cat’s a serious bird killer–I know some are–why not just put a bell on them?)
They were born on farms and go absolutely loco when they get locked in. In fact, the younger one actually turns bulimic if we keep her in. (Binges on Meow Mix and pukes all over the house.) And the older one gets mean and starts biting random people.
I live in the city. If I get a cat, he/she will be an indoor cat from the start. The neighborhood is high traffic and has lots of dogs and cats running around loose. Too dangerous, IMHO.
The point is, there’s not one right answer to apply to every cat/owner situation.
:rolleyes:
That is completely ridiculous!
My cats’ lives are anything BUT boring! There are five of them. They sleep in warm, cozy fluffy soft beds made just for them from pillows, cushions and kitty-sized afghans that my mother made just for them. The laundry room is THEIR room-they have the two litter boxes, and then a chair in front of the washer/dryer so they can jump up on top more easily. The top of the dryer is padded with foam and their afghans, then we have two ledges-the backs of the washer dryer has a built on ledge and then the window sills.
THEN, right beside the dryer, since we don’t use the backdoor in the kitchen (we have another backdoor in the dining room), my dad put up the “perch.” It’s a shelf bracketed onto the door, padded and upholstered and covered with more kitty afghans so they can sit on it and look outside.
They have two or three beds in the living room, and one under the kitchen table.
So they have wonderful places to sleep.
As for excitement-they’re constantly chasing one another, getting into stuff they aren’t supposed to, wrestling, playing with their toys (paper balls, a scratching post and other little cat toys), teasing the dog, looking out the windows, climbing the furniture, poking their noses where they don’t belong.
Please!
Not to mention, my Buffy is rather timid. If she got outside, she’d find someplace to hide. She HATES it when company comes to the house-it completely freaks her out.
Boring my arse!
Not when the reasons for letting the cats run free are along the lines of “that’s how cats are” and “they’ll be happier” and “cats are naturally outdoor creatures”. (paraphrases/inferences, not exact quotes)
Why isn’t anyone advocating the right of dogs to run free because “if you live somewhere where a [dog] can’t be a [dog] (busy inner city area, extremely cold region or whatever) then maybe you want to get a goldfish?” (Altered quote)
I agree with Kat- if the only reason one is arguing to let a cat outdoors because ‘that’s how cats are, etc…’ then it makes no sense not to argue the same for dogs. I know full well that my dogs would love to have the run of the neighborhood- they could harass other people’s pets, knock over garbage cans, chase cars, etc. But there’s no way I would ever let them do this. It’s illegal, irresponsible, and cruel.
All of my cats have been indoor cats. I’m sure they would have loved to run free in the neighborhood as well. But I would never let them for the same reason I’d never let a young child run free in the neighborhood- it’s too dangerous.
Just because an animal or person wants something, or would be happier in a different situation does not always mean that’s the best thing for them. As a responsible pet owner, you have to make these decisions for them. All of my animals hate going to the vet- should I stop taking them, because it makes them unhappy? And it’s not really natural- wild animals don’t go to the vet, right? :rolleyes: Give me a break.
If you live on several acres and have a farm, and there are no major roads around, then I can see having some outdoor cats or barn cats whose function is to help control vermin. But if you live in the suburbs or a city, and you’re letting your cat wander the streets because ‘it makes him happy’ or ‘that’s how cats are’, it’s my opinion that you’re being irresponsible. If you aren’t capable of or willing to take care of a more complicated pet properly, maybe you should, as was used in a different example ‘Get a goldfish instead’.
Denver is a GREAT place for outdoor animals! Just look here.
That aside, we have two cats - one is terrified of the outdoors, the other might wander off. They are both kept well entertained in our home, being chased by two 50lb dogs when the chance presents itself, or just hanging out on the stair rails.
I live in central Denver (far from Aurora, the land of mutilated cats.
About fifteen years ago, someone was setting dogs on fire here in Denver, and our dogs managed to avoid that as well.)
Depends where you live, but for us, Colorado has been a great place for outdoor kitties, lots of sunshine. Our living situation is very urban, but on a relatively quiet street.
My cats have always been indoor/outdoor cats. The most recent: Older cat, a large neutered male, lived to 17.
Younger (present) cat, a slender female, is now 16 and a half and is doing fine.
Just because I let my cats outside, it’s not like it’s ‘out of sight, out of mind.’ My present cat suns herself on the patio and catches mice by the garage. Just about everyone on our block owns a dog or a cat or, like us, some of each. We all communicate with each other, know everyone’s pets, and co-exist quite well. A neighbor down the street has one indoor/outdoor cat and one indoor–the indoor kitty is the most obese feline I have ever seen, looks like a kitty head plopped onto a medicine ball–and I wonder if he will live as long as his housemate. Maybe he does not play all that much.
Oh, golly, maybe because your average dog weighs three or ten times as much as a cat, is aggressive about defending its territory and can do a lot of damage if it attacks someone? I’m sure there’s the occasional “Rogue cat mauls neighborhood kid” headline, but I’ve never seen one. When I had a paper route as a kid, it wasn’t the loose cats I was worried about but I got nipped by more than one canine. So, cat: worst case, kills songbirds and defecates in garden. Dog: worst case, attacks people, kills pets,
Two different creatures with different sizes and capabilities. At least make a rational argument if you’re going to make one.
When I was growing up in a small town, our cats were all indoor/outdoor. Not a one lived passed two or three years old. Most disappeared or were found dead. I’ve been in vehicles that hit pets that ran into the road, and we had a dog that was run over and another that was trying to protect our property and was kicked in the stomach (she was heavily pregnant) by a thief. Both of those dogs were put down by the vet.
My cats are almost six, and have never had anything more serious than ear mites and conjunctivitis (knock on wood). As my cats are declawed, putting them outside is obviously a non-issue, but we live on a road that is far too busy for any animal to be running around, and yet I’ve seen several cats wandering the streets around us.
We had to haul one beautiful adoring cat to the shelter after he would not stop spraying our back porch and trying to get into our house when we’d open the back door. He was sweet and good-natured, but our letter to the owner warning them of the action we were about to take went unheeded. If anyone is wondering what happened to their little Pikachu, that’s where he went. He’s either adopted or dead now.
Some cats live a long time outdoors, and farm cats have fewer dangers than city cats, but to say that cats are bored living inside is to attribute too much intelligence to a creature that licks its asshole clean.
As far as my cats are concerned, I’m their mama, and I have just as much responsibility to make decisions concerning their welfare as I would for a human child.
I define boring as a life spent entirely indoors. I know, circular.
What about when your cats are adults? Can’t adult cats make their own decisions? My responsibility to my cat is that I get him patched up when he makes the wrong choice.
My cats are adults. In fact, I think by the charts, they’re technically older than I am. If my cats were capable of making informed decisions, then I would allow them that, but they aren’t. Cats have a limited capacity for learning (unless it’s something they aren’t supposed to do, and then they pick it up instantly), so it’s up to me to protect them from the things they are incapable of learning to avoid.
I made the decision to have them spayed (well, one anyway. The other already was), to take them to the vet yearly for shots or when they have problems, and I will probably have to make the decision to have them euthanized when their time comes. Based on their reactions, they would not make these decisions on their own. Were they capable of rational thought, then I could let them make the decisions for themselves.
Oh, and pet cats are essentially kittens their entire lives if their owners treat them right. That’s why your cats talk to you. Cats don’t normally talk to each other verbally, except mama to kitten and vice-versa (there are, as always, exceptions to this rule). So yes, I am still their mama in their eyes (they cry if I shut myself in another room, even if my husband is around).
I have a timid cat who wants nothing to do with the outside. I have an amazingly friendly cat who loves nothing better than to meet new people. . . and munch on a little grass now and then. I take the second one outside when I can cat-sit him there. We learned early on that he will follow ANYONE who is nice to him. When he was brought home by a nice police officer one morning, I decided that he would be a mostly-indoor cat. And we’re all happy this way.
Ace of Swords? You’re not by any chance related to another Ace who started the previous thread, are you?
I encourage folks to look at the other thread. I’m not going to go through the same cites that I did in the other thread – suffice it to say that on the one side, you’ve got messybeasts.com, and on the other side, you have every reputable animal welfare organization, wildlife organization, and veterinary organization that’s made a statement about indoor-vs.-outdoor cats.
It’s only a nonsettled issue if you’ve got some sort of pseudomystical ideas about the Meaning of Cathood or some such nonsense. Anecdotal and statistical data confirm that indoor cats are healthier and, if provided with an enriched environment, typically display no mental or behavioral disorders related to being kept indoors.
Daniel
Just checked your profile, Ace. Never mind my first question.
For the curious amongst you, here’s the previous link.
Daniel
One and the same. I promised to post it to GQ didn’t I? 
But no, to refresh, the current state of our data – btw, I’m glad to see you like anecdotal data, now – is that the anecdotal information is split, and the statistical data is hidden or nonexistent. The American authorites’ opinions are indeed to keep cat indoors.
I hoped someone in GQ would have the statistics, as I never heard back from the AJVR (American Journal of Veternary Research). Apparently not, so, I’m content to get everyone’s opinion on the matter.
Thanks for finding the link, though. I’m no good with that search engine.
-Ace
Ace,
I think you asked about relative costs. If you take good care of your outdoor cat-it can be more expensive.
1.) Requires strict adherence to shots-also means that you should give it all the reccomended shots not just the base minimum.
2.) Frontline: that stuff is expensive
3.) Vet costs associated with injuries etc.: fortunately ours are trained on a whistle and come back on command after 3 hours but back in the day when Babu was on a runwire-ahem-an accident required 3 days of hospitalisation. Missy also cut her paw rather badly on a bramblebush or something once and required a vet visit. Our neighbour cat, Leo, hurt his head very badly on a nail and required surgery-costs of that nature.
The advantage is that they seem genuinely happy, which they are not when they are imprisoned indoors (just my cats, not a judgement call on other people’s cats) and my parents live in a ruralish town with lots of land on a street with close-to-zero traffic so the risk of accidents in that regard is minimal.
My personal cat at college, Limbu, is an indoor cat because I don’t want some frattie running him over and while I live in a residential neighbourhood-it’s just not as nice as my parents’ place.
Cat-fur coats are lovely in the winter