One thing I’ve toyed around with for a while is the possibility of some extended solo camping. The problem is, I have no real experience w/ campers, and no idea what is involved. One scenario - in my retirement I’ve imagined looking into several months’ long job at a national park. Would the easiest thing be to look for an RV park w/ power/water hookups, and then just drive in and out of the park daily?
I’m pretty low maintenance in the “comfort” department - I’d basically just need 1 sleeping space, 1 chair, a place to store/prepare/eat food, and some bathroom capability. But I’ve got no idea how the energy works (propane?), what you do about water and waste, etc. How small of a van/trailer would meet my minimal needs?
And I’d just as soon not break the bank. Not sure if it would be cheaper to buy a used van, or to trade my current car for something that could tow a small trailer. The latter might make it easier to drive around once at the location.
Would be happy to engage in a discussion of the pros/cons of various approaches here, or would welcome direction to any on-line resources discussing.
No personal experience, but I do know there are a lot of van-life/RV-life youtube channels. They cover just about every aspect of life on the road, living in everything from a Prius to a giant Class A.
We had a trailer when I was a kid but that was 40+ years ago. (the first one did not have a bathroom. We got a larger one that did but only had that a year or 2)
What is the towing capacity of your current vehicle? If it is low (or even if it isn’t) you could consider something small like a scampor a t@b 320
If you can forgo the bathroom requirement, you could also consider a teardrop (some are light enough to be towed by a motorcylcle)
A towable has pros (can take your tow vehicle for day trips) and cons (backing up, longer total length)
Many (most?) use propane for heat /hot water / cooking.
If you want a separate vehicle (shorter total length), perhaps smaller class B (new these cost 100k+)
Some of theses have induction cooking, but propane for hot water / heat is common (I think)
In either case there are typically 3 tanks (of various capacities)
fresh – what you drink
grey – sink / shower drain
black – toilet drain.
Some have a composting or cassette toilet (basically a black tank you empty more often)
One site I visit is https://www.thefitrv.com/ (mostly class B coverage – they have unusual requirements – bikes indoors while sleeping, bathroom useable in motion*)
My current vehicle (VW GTI) does not recommend towing, but some sites suggest 2000#/200# tongue weight. If I went the trailer route, I’d likely trade my car in for something like a Jeep Renegade. Wondering how I could stand the little trailers… But definitely would be the cheapest way to go. Would require access to bathroom facilities. Use the tow vehicle for storage, likely bring a bike as well.
Most of them have outdoor kitchens. Was wondering how nutritious of a diet I could have w/ no-cook foods…
As of this moment, how much experience do you have towing a trailer? For some people, it’s absolute second nature. For me hanging anything on a standard hitch and trying to get it down the road is an exercise in mortal terror and third degree ass clenching. 5th wheels are much less nerve wracking IMHO but that’s going to be a pretty big trailer for one to two people.
The smaller teardrops typically have outdoor kitchens but the two I linked are indoor.
In case it isn’t clear I am not an expert, but have done a little research, thinking at some point tents aren’t going to cut it. Probably 10 years out though knock on wood.
MrsRico and I were grubby tent campers for many years. Around age 50 we tired of sleeping on the ground and cooking in firepits. We’ve “campered” in 25-foot RVs ever since. Not full-time; we return home with arts, crafts, delicacies, and memories.
State and national parks and forest sites we’ve seen mostly provide hookups for “camp hosts”. I.e. you get free rent and utilities as payment for dealing with visitors. :eek: Government parks may be closed awhile because COVID. Be patient.
For your solitary life, an 18- or 20-foot camper-van or Class-C RV may be enough. A 25-footer will be better if you find a friend. For info on water, wastes, fuels etc you can visit a new-and-used RV dealer and ask questions. Insist on seeing suitably small rigs. Take notes and photos. Or visit an RV park and talk to owners. Many are friendly and love showing off their spiffy rigs. Keep safe distancing of course.
A year-old rental RV should be in good shape and have its bugs worked out. One 10-15 years old may be scratched but cheap, like our first. Take any serious prospect to an independent mechanic for evaluation.
I grok the lure of a trailer - it can stay on-side while you drive about - but hauling smallish trailers at highway speeds nearly killed me a couple times, and not my fault. And one must step outside to go between vehicle and travel trailer - not good with bad weather, brushfire, blackflies, bears, boozers etc. If [del]needed[/del] prudent I can go from bed to RV steering wheel to GONE in 9 seconds. I’ll skip trailers, thank you.
I have a lot of experience towing (note username) and there’s no reason to fear a trailer, as long as you stay well within the range of your vehicle. I’m currently pulling a 36 footer behind my pickup truck and prior to that a fifth wheel + boat combo (70 feet long). Towing isn’t “white knuckle” if you set up the rig properly. Unfortunately, RV dealers frequently aren’t the best place to help you with this.
The reasons people get into trouble towing are usually too much weight behind the trailer axles, too much weight period, or not enough hitch. Your car’s manual will have the information on towing capacity. All I can find on the web for a VW GTI is “not recommended”. If this is true, you may be uninsured if you decide to tow.
If your car does allow light towing, perhaps you should consider a popup camper. These are the best bang for your buck regarding room .vs. weight. They’re surprisingly roomy and luxurious, and your description seems to be “staying in one place” instead of frequent movement.
Here’s a link to one near me (chosen mostly at random) weighing a bit over 1800 lbs. These have most everything you need including air conditioning. Most do not have toilets, but this is easily solvable with a small chemical toilet from Wallie world. We did this for several year in our first camper, only using the portable potty late at night or when raining. We used the campground facilities most of the time.
Another option is the small “pod” trailers. This seems to have most of the features of the popup, but on a smaller footprint. It seems to have a full water system including a water heater.
Finally, if your vehicle can handle it, google “r-pod” trailers. I’ve seen a lot of these in the national parks, and they appear to be the lightest hard-sides (no unfolding or canvas) that are available.
Best of luck. Hopefully Chefguy will be along soon. As an ex RV dealer, he may have better recommendations.
another option might be a van … comes in different sizes and brands. if you don’t get one with extended height … you might regret that choice. i’ve watched a few youtube videos … they seem to be all the rage (for certain types of scenarios). this lifestyle isn’t for everyone … it may end up being an option in the future if not at present. of course, you could hang bicycle outside rear of the vehicle.
A guy that I worked with retired recently and is now driving around the country with his wife in a camper-van. He and his wife were not sure if they would like it, so they rented a camper-van for a test vacation before he retired. They liked it enough to buy a van and have it converted with the camper add-ons.
The van is like your common delivery van with an extended height. It has a kitchen, bathroom with shower, bed, etc. He said the advantage of a camper-van is that they can park it pretty much anywhere a regular car can park. They figure they can camp at an RV park and use the hook-ups, then easily drive around the surrounding area to sight see. With an RV, they are pretty limited as to where they can park and sight seeing would be a chore without a normal sized car.
Propane is commonly used for heating, cooking & refrigeration.
Diesel-fueled heaters are becoming popular, largely due to the relatively recent availability of cheap & acceptably reliable models from China.
A solar panel & battery setup is common for those who spend more than very short times away from an electrical hookup. Sophisticated (i.e. large and expensive) systems can cover cooking and refrigeration.
Air conditioning pretty much requires either an electrical hookup or a (noisy & expensive) generator, fueled by gas or propane.
Electrical hookups are standard in commercial campgrounds (which tend to charge non-trivial daily fees). They are notably rare in state and National parks.
Wood stoves are sometimes used, but are far from common. I expect this would make sense only when camping in a cold area where free wood is lying around for the taking. Note that almost all parks prohibit collecting wood for any purpose - probably because otherwise people start attacking the forest for campfire fuel.
Mrs. L and I go. We pick a destination and drive there, maybe stopping at attractions on the way. We get to the campground and set up our “self-contained” camper (imagine a van on steroids.) It has a three burner, a toilet, a TV, a bed, all that. The next morning, we wake up, nuke breakfast, (Army) shower, fold the bedding, put away EVERYTHING (because it’s going to fall, break, rattle around when we hit a bump in the road), unplug, disconnect water, and drive to see more sights. We come back at night and set up all over again. The wife and I haven’t retired yet, but we love to go, to escape for awhile. For instance one memorable trip was Memphis TN. We went to Beale St, walked along the river, found the Lorraine Motel, ate BBQ, stepped into the Gibson factory to drool, all that.
OP sounds like he wants to stay. This is a different lifestyle. You arrive at the park, set up your trailer, and that’s good for six months. When you don’t have duties for your park job, you relax, maybe strum a guitar, ride a bike, relax in your hammock, try to catch a fish, enjoy a campfire at night, grill some dinner, sip a cocktail, kick back and watch the stars. I love the smell of burning wood, especially if it’s pinon. Sure you may need to head into town for groceries or to catch a movie occasionally, but mostly you stay at the park. For this, I’d want a different set up: truck/van/car pulling a trailer.
I haven’t done much towing (at all) in my life. It’s stressful. However, if I were setting up in one place for six months, it seems like it would probably be worth the hassle. We see park hosts who have dish TV setups, small patios, and other extensions because they’re staying awhile. I realize OP is ready for “roughing it” but it’s nice to have options if that wears thin.
To answer about power….We have AC, DC, and propane…and a built in generator. Ours has a solar panel that no longer works and which, they tell us, was really a trickle charger and a gimmick not worth repairing. But solar may have come a long way since.
AC, a.k.a. “Shore power,” is usually when you plug into the grid. (As I understand it, they call it “shore power” because a lot of the tech in RVs actually comes from usage in boats—in this case, plugging in while they’re in port). We can pull 30 Amps and the gen can provide that too. If we run a plain jane extension for 110V to the house, ok: that’s only 15 amp so you can run a few things but not everything and definitely no air conditioning. Bigger RVs and trailers pull 40 Amps. Different campsites have different amperages but if I get a site that’s 40 amp, it (almost?) always has had connection for 30 amp. I have an adapter, too.
DC, a.k.a. “coach battery” or “house battery” is one or more deep cycle batteries for when you don’t have connection to shore power. They don’t charge/discharge rapidly, which hopefully means that even if you don’t use them for awhile, they’re ready when you need them. Some love to go waaaaayyyy off the beaten path and run on battery while hunting, fishing, whatever—this is called “boondocking.” But batteries can run down fast if you’re not careful, so having a built in generator helps, though not all units have them. Ours does; we also have a switch that allows our coach batteries to jump start our chassis (van) battery if it dies. Neat trick, eh, jump starting yourself, without even opening the hood? Seems only fair: the engine’s generator often charges the house batts.
Propane is for heat, water heater, and refrigerator. Yes, the fridge runs on AC, DC, or propane. Imagine having your filet mignon in the fridge go bad while you’re driving down the road. We could AC (generator) or DC…nope, it’s propane to the rescue! What I didn’t anticipate: propane bows to no electricity…it will freeze a 2 liter soda in the refrigerator if you aren’t careful. I hope we never need to replace the fridge because they aren’t cheap.
Lots to think about. A lightweight trailer is easy to tow, but is it too flimsy? You want to cook everything indoors but will that fish smell linger for weeks in a cramped space, not allowing you to sleep? For the long term, how much do you mind having to fold the bedding so you can sit on the couch (because they’re the same futon-like thing)? Did you budget for the (more expensive) RV toilet paper?
By all means, if you can rent and try out things, do so. On a budget you should think “used.” New units depreciate quickly so let the other guy eat that, yes? Here’s a place that may give you some idea what things are going for. https://www.rvtrader.com/
Thanks, all. pullin, that linked trailer looks really neat - and cheap. If I went the trailer route, I’d likely trade in my car for something more appropriate. Could probably swap for an Equinox or Renegade close to straight up.
Really fun trying to figure how LITTLE I could stand. In my mind, if I were in a beautiful setting like a national park, I’d be spending a lot of time outside. My recreation otherwise would be pretty limited to reading and playing banjo - which I could do sitting in a trailer or outside in a camp chair. I’d be happy to rely on no tech other than a phone and ikely an ereader. How would you recharge? Off the car battery, or maybe a solar panel?
Possibly silly question, but how do you “secure” your trailer when gone? What s to stop someone from breaking in - or even driving away w/ it?
Yes, I acknowledge that if this ever becomes more likely, I’d have a TON of research to do beyond this forum. But I welcome your responses.
Wow - thanks for that reply, l-boy. I clicked Reply before seeing it.
I think a tricked out Sprinter would be optimal, but that could be quite pricey. We’ll see (if I ever get to that point!) I could afford it, but I’m a cheap ass bastard!
Food is one place that I’m seriously at an advantage. To me, it is nothing other than fuel. I would honestly be happy to live on nothing other than PBJ, rice and beans, and fresh fruits/veggies for the rest of my life. Honestly, some of the units w/ fancy iceboxes claim they can keep a bag of ice for a week! Might be enough for me. Then, I’d have to figure out what would make a nutritious diet w/ a minimum of cooking.
I’ve owned three motor homes over the past 20 years. The first was a very small used class C (overcab) on a Toyota chassis, very similar to this one. I think it was 22’. The only issue with it is that you can’t stand up in it unless you’re about 5’7". It was fine as a starter rig, though. We moved on after a few years to a new 2004 27’ Bigfoot class C just like this one. Much more room, as it had a slide-out in the kitchen area and one in the bedroom. But that’s more RV than the OP is looking for.
Now we own a 2010 20’ class B van conversion made by Pleasure-Way, like the one in this video. This is more what the OP is wanting. It sleeps two, has a a small cooking area, self-contained bathroom, generator, AC, refrigerator, convection microwave, and TV/DVD. The passenger seat swivels around to face the rear, so you have a chair and can just leave the bed made up. This is on a Ford chassis. Most newer class B models are on Sprinter chassis and are ridiculously expensive, and it sounds like you’re looking for a cheaper, used model anyway.
As for some of your questions:
The stove is propane, and there is an on-board propane tank that lasts quite a long time before refill.
The refrigerator works on propane, AC or battery.
The AC requires shore power, as does the microwave and the TV. The motorhome, like most small motor homes, connects to shore power via a 30 amp power cord, which is a standard hookup at all campgrounds. Much larger RVs connect via a 50 amp cord.
While motor homes come with an onboard water tank, you can also connect to shore water with a standard garden hose. There are also sewage holding tanks that require periodic dumping, or that can be connected to shore sewer via a dump hose.
The advantage to a small rig like this is that you can pretty much park it anywhere you can park any passenger van. You can also tow a car behind it, if desired.
Many trailers also have the same amenities. I’ve never liked towing one, but I can see the attraction.
For any used RV, whether motorized or towed, make sure you inspect it thoroughly and make the seller demonstrate that all systems function, and that nothing leaks. Check for water damage on the interior and any bulges in the exterior fiberglass, which indicates water intrusion and separation. If it’s over ten years old, ask if the window seals have ever been replaced. It’s about a $500 job to get it done; more, if you have a dealer do it.
Ask how old the tires are. If you’re in a climate where the vehicle is stored for months at a time, the tires will only last about five years before needing replacement. You don’t want tire belts breaking while you’re out on the road (which happened to me). Just because the tires look okay, that doesn’t mean squat. It’s a function of age, not beauty.
If you buy a motor home, take it out and drive it. Check for any front end issues like shimmy or wander. This can be fixed, but you shouldn’t have to pay for it.
About Sprinter chassis RVs: If you buy new, they start at about $150K. You’re paying a huge premium for that Mercedes diesel engine and the prestige emblem on the front. Even used, they’re close to $100K, depending on age. Honestly, I wouldn’t buy a motor home that is more than 10 years old unless it was in spectacularly good condition. People just don’t take care of them like they should.
About diesel engines. What I used to tell potential buyers: If you have to ask about gas mileage, you shouldn’t be buying a motor home. Also, if you enjoy being raped every time you go to a mechanic, then diesel is the way to go.
Even the Dodge Ram van chassis rigs start at about $95K, new.
Most of the Sprinters I’ve looked at are not very well made. They are narrow inside, and the fit/finish is not up to snuff in a lot of them. Basically, they just take a naked van and stuff whatever they can into it, which leaves you shuffling sideways down the aisle.
My Pleasure-Way is a Ford van chassis, but the company put their own fiberglass coach on it that gives an additional eight inches of width. Doesn’t sound like much, but it makes a big difference inside.
No fucking way would I spend $100k. I used to drive a Sienna (family hauler when my kids were young). I often thought I could do a lot of travellling w/ just an inflatable mattress and cooler in the back of that - maybe stopping in a motel every 4th day or so.
Something like an Equinox/Renegade/Pacifica hauling some sort of a trailer could be VERY doable for me. Hell - could even consider it as having two separate ROOMS! Maybe consider the lawnchair outside as a THIRD room! The drive vehicle could be kitted out as efficient storage. Heck, the captain’s chairs could even be alternative sitting/reading space.
Trading in my car, I could probably kit myself out comfortably for $15-20k easy. Very appealing!
About a decade ago I accepted a new position 90 miles from my home. I got a cheap apt, where I flopped Mon-Thurs, driving home for weekends. I had a twin mattress on the floor, 1 easy chair, a lamp next to the chair and another next to the bed for reading - on boxes for end tables, and an old kitchen table w/ 2 chairs. Clock radio, but no TV. I think I had 2 pans, 2 plates and bowls, and 1 set of silverware. As a lark, I saw how little energy and water I could consume.
I was PERFECTLY happy. Spent all of my time golfing, walking the dunes w/ my dog (in any weather), or playing music. When home, I played music, read, and slept.
We had a pop-up tent trailer for a few years when the kids were younger and loved it. Granted, that was 4 people and we only lived in it for a week at a time on occasion over the warm summer months.
The trailer was already about 25 years old when we got it for a song from a friend. It needed some stitching on the canvas but was otherwise in very good shape. It had an onboard propane stove and small sink, and was equipped with electric and water hookup. No potty. Slept two adults and 2 kids and a dog comfortably. The ability to walk around inside was nice, as was the fold away table for meals and games.
Some observations relating to the OP FWIW:
If you are going to use hook-up, it is probably a place with a bathroom, so no need for an onboard potty. If you do get something with onboard bathroom, keep in mind you have to find a place to empty it on occasion.
We towed it with a standard Honda minivan and that was sufficient. We liked being able to park the trailer, set it up, then drive away to some attraction or nearby town without the trailer.
Check towing capacity for the vehicle you plan to use if you go with a trailer. Ours needed an add-on oil cooling system so the engine would not blow-out on climbs. Some vehicles are designed with towing in mind, some are not and need some modification.
It was nice having an indoor kitchen, altho we cooked a lot outside as well. Indoors, you are protected from weather, and bugs. I will mention again the ability to stand-up and walk-around inside was nice. Some of the smaller trailers out there, this is not possible.
In the 7 years we had the trailer, I never refilled the propane tank. Of course, only the stove had use for propane as there was no fridge, and the stove was used for only a few minutes at a time when we were camping.
Driving and backing-up/parking take some practice but are very learnable. Take some time to practice locally before you hit the road.
There are pros and cons to all the options, so you just need to see what works best for you.
As someone who used to sell these things, here is some good advice. We used to get people on the lot all the time who had just bought a new vehicle and then came looking for something to tow with it. More often than not, they were really upset that the trailer they wanted, or that would fit their needs, was way too heavy for the vehicle they just bought.
What you should do is to identify several vehicles that you think you like, and then go to an RV dealer and tell them what vehicles you’re considering and ask them to show you models that can be towed by those vehicles. All RV dealers have spec books that list the towing capacities for most all vehicles. Nowadays, with the ultralight construction on a lot of trailers, you can actually get more bang for your buck. Keep in mind that the gross towing capacity includes the weight of the trailer plus whatever you load into it. Most people overload their trailers, which can lead to some nasty problems on the road. I would also have the towing package installed by a reputable company. Many RV dealers will do the work, but check their ratings.
