Instant Hot Water?

Factual Questions
1

With all the modern technological inventions out there today, I was wondering why most homes can’t have “instant warm water” then adjustable to hot, when we turn on our faucets in the shower and sink in the bathroom? Manys the time I have stood there with toothpaste drooling out of my mouth while waiting for the warm water to make it from the hot water heater to the bathroom.
I realize I am probably a typical spoiled American and that I should be grateful for the plumbing I have, but it seems to me that someone would have come up with an easy solution for this by now…'It’s for sure that we have invented much more ridiculous things than this for convienence sake… course it’s possible someone has invented this and I don’t know it, but it certainly isn’t standard operational procedure in any homes I have been in.

Maybe a small inexpensive little unit that fits under the sink at the water source for the bathroom that warms either the pipes or water continiously all the way back to the water heater… Would save on frozen pipes too. Anyone ever heard of a device like this? If not any ideas?

Maybe I just need to get a life…

Of course that’s just my opinion I could be wrong.
Dennis Miller

2

My mom has had something like this in her home for years. I guess it’s some kind of circulating pump. They have them in apartment complexes, too. It can cause the pipes to wear out a little faster because water is constantly circulating through them, I understand. In the long run, it sure seems to be more of a savings for water. Beyond this, I can give no more details. Sorry. :frowning:

A ship in the harbor is safe, but that isn’t what a ship is built for.

3

Maybe you just need to get a patent!

This is a great idea, however, I’d expect the same people responsible for mandatory low-flow shower heads to throw a few obstacles in your way. Then again, with modern insulation materials, I don’t think it would be too wasteful or inefficient.

4

Thanks ursa…seems like it would save water too!

Of course that’s just my opinion I could be wrong.
Dennis Miller

5

The circulating system is getting more and more common. Also there is a propane instant water heater that is also available. My cousin, who is the local propane distributor, had one in his shop for the sink. Basically it is a wall mounted box, not very deep but probably just small enough to be hidden by a small vanity cabinet. I remember it working well as long as you didn’t have the water running full bore or for a long period of time. He replaced it with a full-size tank heater simply because he needed a greater supply of hot water. For a cabin where you wouldn’t be doing laundry or using a dish washer it might be practical. For a household it probably wouldn’t work well.

6

>>
I was wondering why most homes can’t have “instant warm water” then adjustable to hot, when we turn on our faucets in the shower and sink in the bathroom?
>>

We have a Kitchenaid “instant hot” device in our kitchen. It was there when we bought the house 14 years ago. Just press the spigot for water hot enough for a teabag or instant coffee/cocoa.

I have no idea how it works, other than it apears to use our regular water supply and an electric heating element. I think they’re fairly inexpensive if yo uwanted to install one.

7

There is not a water heater in the country big enough for my son to use when he showers…if he could he would stand under hot running water for three days…

8

The device WillGolfForFood is talking about is available to provide instant hot water in small amounts, like he said. I’ve read about attempts to do this on a larger scale (like, to provide enough hot water for fuzzy-wuzzy’s shower), and it is possible to install these things in your house, but the technology isn’t as easy as you’d think. The main problem seems to be that suddenly zapping the pipes with heat causes them to expand and soon start to leak.

If you could invent a heater that wouldn’t tear up the pipes like that, you’d be rich.

9

Holly:
If you could invent a heater that wouldn’t tear up the pipes like that, you’d be rich.

I agree holly…its just when I think of that moon trip and other technological problems we have solved, I figured someone would have invented a heater that wouldn’t tear up pipes and would become standard installation on new houses by now.

Of course that’s just my opinion I could be wrong.
Dennis Miller

10

"
Maybe a small inexpensive little unit that fits under the sink at the
water source for the bathroom that warms either the pipes or water
continiously all the way back to the water heater… Would save on
frozen pipes too. Anyone ever heard of a device like this? If not any
ideas?"

Visit Home Depot, get a little electric hot water heater, fits under the sink, does just that…

11

Okay, I called my mom because she doesn’t have the little faucet on the sink that gives you hot water for a cup of tea…she has a circulating pump that gives you instant hot water for a shower, bath, hand-washing or laundry. In her last house, the one they had was still working after 35 years, and she reported no water pipe problems; however, she stated the water heater seemed not to last as long as it should.

 She states she's been told the best circulating pump is made by a company out of the Northeast called Taco. I found information on them on the web, as well as Grundfos and Laing, and I'm sure there are many others.

 As far as the apartment complex I mentioned in my first response, their pipes are wearing out after about 38 years. This could be caused by the circulating pump's constant water pressure in the lines, the age of the pipes, or the fact that we have a heavy lime build-up in our water supply that the local water company does not feel it's their problem to address with filtration.
12

I had wondered about this, and even got to the point of working out a basic idea, seems like it’s something else I wasn’t fast enough to get…

Two pipes to the faucet, one for a drain. Slowly drain the nearly hot water back to the heater, so that the water in the pipes doesn’t have time to cool down.
This, combined with a one-handle faucet, where elevation is pressure, and angle is temperature, would be very handy.

It wouldn’t be hard to use a tiny computer to read the water temperatures of the hot and cold water, figure out the mix to get the desired temperature, and let you select by temperature, not some arbitrary angle.

The system could use water pressure for the mechanism, and either a tiny lifetime battery, or a thermocouple between the hot and cold pipes, to power the computer.

Recirculating the cold water, from the pipes where it’d pick up ambient temperature, to a cooler in the basement, where it would be kept at an ideal (4C maybe) temperature, would allow a great range in temperates.

The temperature control could cope with underflows, such as a flushed toilet, by either dropping pressure on both to compensate, or with a large enough resivoir near the sink and shower, to cope with any sudden fluctuations.

It’d be a simple device. Two medium-sized canisters, ten liters maybe. Feed into both in the middle, draw hot water from the top of the hot tank, and cold from the bottom of the cold tank. Draw excess for the recirculation from the bottom (coldest) of the hot tank, and the top (warmest) of the cold tank.

A float, or pressurized canister, would allow drawing from the top of a partially full canister.

It’s yet another of the devices I was going to implement in my dream house, if I can ever afford one.

13

Aha wrote: “Manys the time I have stood there with toothpaste drooling out of my mouth while waiting for the warm water to make it from the hot water heater to the bathroom.”

Perhaps I’m odd, but I found this statement disturbing. You rinse your mouth out with warm water? Yuck.

“Shoplifting is a victimless crime. Like punching someone in the dark.” -Nelson Muntz.

14

Actually this system already exists. IIRC it’s known as “on demand” hot water. It’s commonly used in places like luxury hotels where there is a large demand for hot water at a number of different outlets.

In your house, your cold water is sent directly from your water supply. Your hot water is also drawn from this supply, but it is drawn into a tank, heated, and then stored in an insulated tank until needed. As many people know, it is possible to use so much hot water that you drain your tank and then have to wait until a new tankful is filled and heated.

With an on demand system, both your cold and hot water come from your main water supply. Your cold water comes unchanged but your hot water is heated in the pipes as it travels from your water supply to your outlet. This means that you can never run out of hot water because you are making it as you use it.

The problem with on demand system is that it uses a lot more energy to produce the hot water. Unlike a hot water tank system which only has to work periodically, you have to use your entire on demand system everytime you get hot water even if you’re only getting a glass full.

15

LateComer said:

Ever had 40 degree water on your teeth! Sheeeeet… :slight_smile:

Of course that’s just my opinion I could be wrong.
Dennis Miller

16

I rinse my mouth with warm water too… I have EXTREMELY cold-sensitive teeth (hopefully when all my dental <s>torture</s> work is done they won’t be quite so bad… but anyway, swishing icy cold water over my teeth is extremely painful. I use water a little warmer than room temperature.

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17

"Ever had 40 degree water on your teeth! Sheeeeet… "

Ever thought of insulating your hot water heater and the pipes? 40 is too low, you risk having those pipes expanding too much.

18

I used to live in Japan, and they have the coolest hot water heating system there. There’s this little box on the wall, usually in the kitchen, you push the button on it to turn on the hot water heating mechanism when you’re ready to use hot water anywhere in the house. Then the cold water shoots through this heating mechanism (located somewhere in the house), and the cold water gets heated up as it goes through! The beauty of it, really, is that you never run out of hot water! I"ve always wondered why they don’t use something like that here!! Especially when I’m freezing cold and only halfway done with my shower.

They also use “hot pots” for keeping small amounts of water at a constant boiling temperature, you just push the top and the water comes out. For tea, oatmeal, whatever.

SW

19

Let me be the honored first to add the obvious yet witty retort to the thread title: “Just Add Hot Water!”

“It’s my considered opinion you’re all a bunch of sissies!”–Paul’s Grandfather

20

A recirculating pump is going to use a lot more energy. Not for the pump itself, but your hot water heater is going to work a lot harder.

The pipes in your home act like a big heat exchanger. Fill them with hot water, and they radiate the heat into the house as they cool down. The pump recirculates the cold water to the water heater, which now has to kick in far more often to re-heat the water. Without the recirc pump, the water in the pipes cools to ambient, but the water in the tank stays hot because it’s in an insulated container and it’s very massive. So it’s very efficient.

In the winter, a recirc pump from the hot water tank might actually help heat your home (radiant in-floor heating systems heat whole houses this way). But in the summer you’re getting a double whammy - you run hot water through your pipes, which heats your home, so you have to use more energy in your air conditioner, and more energy in the hot water tank.