That is the thinking that gives you the USA healthcare in its current form.
Healthcare costs are not considered a civil liability to be recovered. There is nothing stopping the government from doing such a thing but at what cost? to what end? What are the consequences for the general public in terms of insurance and legal costs?
The government and public both agree that healthcare costs are paid for by the government from the contributions made by everyone. We can see the horror show that the USA has become and don’t want to take steps down that path.
In the UK there used to be signs in A&E departments stating that there would be a fee if you were there as the result of a road accident. I think it was something stupid like £18.00.
About 7 years ago I was knocked off my motorbike by some idiot changing lanes without looking. I asked the nurse if I needed to pay the fee and was told they never bother charging. It usually cost them more in admin to issue the bill and then chase payment and at the end of the day the money went to a central pot, not the actual hospital that had fixed you up.
I haven’t seen the signs for a few years so maybe things have now changed.
We accept that accidents happen. Using the courts to distribute costs for every trip, fall and slip costs money for society as a whole and the system here doesn’t encourage it to the extent that the US system appears to do. Even if you do go to court the damages afforded will be limited to actual costs and modest amounts for your suffering.
Of course if you’ve been criminally negligent and, for instance, not removed giant icicles from your building you can be charged for violating the municipal codes for winter safety if you’re lucky, and negligent homicide if you (and even more someone else) is unlucky.
So wait, what happens if you damage government property? If I drive into a mail truck, does the government not go after me and/or my auto insurance to repair it? I mean accidents happen, and tax payers can absorb the occasional damage to the mail truck they paid for.
The law on liability insurance for motor vehicles is the same for all. Making a separate rules for accidents involving government vehicles would make things more complicated, not less. Besides, the mail is operated by a company functioning like other companies, apart from being fully owned by the government.
Yes, in Britain you have to have auto insurance, and you (usually through your insurance) are liable for damage you might cause to property, whether private or government owned. You will not, however, be liable for anyone’s health care costs.
ETA: I don’t know what country alice_in_wonderland at #3 is talking about. Not Britain, anyway.
If one way or another you commit a tort and cost the government $50,000 I would expect the government to go after you through the institution of civil court to recoup its costs. If the $50,000 is spent on repairing government property, or providing medical care for somebody shouldn’t matter. I was just pointing out an inconsistency.
So if I break my leg slipping on my own stairs, it’s free. But if my neighbour trips down my stairs, I have to hire a lawyer to avoid paying $4,000 for a broken leg?? Where’s the logic in that? Many of the lawsuits we hear about in the USA are questionable, they are filed not because someone was obviously negligent (serving hot coffee) but because if that contributed even 5% to the real accident (stupid old lady puts foam coffee cup between legs in car) then they still pay the full damages. The lawsuits are filed because most significant injuries result in someone paying huge amounts of money, and everyone wants someone else to pay.
Basically, health insurance is “no-fault” insurance. All health expenses (except worker’s comp, as noted above) are paid out of the same pot. Think of it as your health insurance covers you for anything; everyone (all residents) are covered regardless of who is at fault; therefore, there is no issue over level of care, which health facility, what is covered; it is the same for everyone.
Otherwise, it would be a nightmare; the party suffering the loss - the health commission - could sue you because your wife or child was injured. Should you pay because you did not properly supervise your child skateboarding? Because you did not put non-skid pads in your bathtub? WHy shouldn’t the government recover costs from anyone? Why does it have to be a third party? The government is out of pocket, they can come after you for not walking carefully on your own stairs… Or for not quitting smoking, or for being more than 20lb overweight.
At which point, everyone will have to get insurance to cover them for any medical bills the medical system presents them with, plus personal liability insurance. Oh wait, that describes the USA.
As a side note, the Workers Comp system does not present medical bills to the businesses either. They will investigate accidents, fine and isssue citations for unsafe practices, etc. However, IIRC there is no correlation between medical costs and fines - they are offenses, not reimbursement. Generally, WC fees are by industry-type, industry wide, except for very large businesses; so usually there is no huge incentive to screw each worker to keep your stats and premiums lower. (and the same goes for unemployment insurance)
I’ll have to leave further discussion of this to someone with a law degree, but tort is a concept of a legal system, legal systems are different from country to country, and apparently the Norwegian laws on tort don’t lead to as many lawsuits as the US system, while the whole of society’s protections leave the population approximately as well off.
I was under the impression there could be more costs to the patient than this. Sure the NHS will cover the emergency work, but what about outpatient treatment? I know the NHS only covers certain prescription drugs, so any non-covered drugs would be at the patient’s cost too.
NHS dental treatment is not free, unless you qualify. Currently £17 for check-ups, £47 for simple treatment, £204 for things like crowns, and there are some procedures that are not available through the NHS. Hygienist, for example. Those services are typically offered by the same dentists, though.
Outpatient work is covered. As, to a certain extent, is cosmetic, family planning and fertility treatment.
All drugs that a doctor prescribes are covered to best of my knowledge though some cutting edge treatments that are massively expensive have to go through an assessment by NICE to balance effectiveness against costs.
It’s not an inconsistency - legislatures get to define what is a tort and what isn’t. If a gov’t chooses not to have a subrogated claim, as a matter of public policy, that’s not an inconsistency. Health care is a gov’t service, just like roads, and the gov’t doesn’t have a claim for the amount it pays in health care, any more than it does in road repair due to wear and tear.
It is thinking like that that has turned the US healthcare system (and, indeed, much of the US legal system) into such a horrendously complex, expensive and unjust nightmare.
Outpatient treatment is fully covered, as are visits to your GP. Prescription drugs are covered too, although if you are in work, under 60 and live in England (not Scotland or Wales) there is a charge per monthly prescription of, IIRC, £7.50. As is the case with most if not all American insurance plans (of which I have experienced several), drugs that are considered ineffective, or of minor benefit relative to their cost, will not be covered, and doctors will not prescribe them under the NHS. However, even very costly drugs (or procedures) will be covered if there is a medical consensus that they are necessary to keep you alive and/or functioning, and that they are likely to work. If the drug or treatment is both unusually expensive and considered a longshot, only then will you probably not get it under the NHS.
Each of the “places” or countries that have Universal health care has a different system.
In Germany, most people = normal employees, plus their spouses plus minor children, will be mandatorily insured under general health insurance (Gesetzliche Krankenkassen). Self-employeed people, employees with a high income (Managers) and state officials (Beamte) have to look for private insurance (though less shenanigans are allowed than in the US).
If you go to hospital or a doctor with an accident as opposed to a disease, questions will be asked undoubtly. Treatment will start immediately of course, but you are required to report every accident to your health insurance, and they will want the money if another group is responsible: on your way to work or during work = workers accident insurance (Berufsunfallversicherung)
Driving a car or been injured by a car = depending on fault, the owner of the car will have to pay
during your vacation when skiing = your private insurance if you want any additional measures.
Just for accuracy the actual cost of prescription medicinces in England is £7.40 per item - irrespective of the cost of the drug. For people needing more than 4 items in three months or 14 in a year there are Prescription Prepayment Certificates that cost £29.10 for a quarter or £104 for the year that cover as many prescription as necessary in the period.
Also people with various long term conditions are completely exempt and don’t pay for any medicines whether or not they relate to the condition. These are things like a permanent colostomy, diabetes treated by insulin, hypoparathyroidism, myasthenia gravis, epilepsy etc, etc. You are also exempt while you have cancer.
In Canada, things like ambulances are not covered. Prescription drugs are not covered except those given to a patient in a hospital. Electives like cosmetic surgeries are not covered - except the definition varies. I.e. If you lost more than 100lb, the government will pay for a tummy tuck to remove that huge floppy skin; reconstruction, for hare-lip or burns, for example is covered. It is not considered “frivolous”. All doctor visits are covered, but for simple “full checkups” you are limited to 1 per year - but you can visit the doctor for a complaint as often as you can get in. Specialist visits have to be recommended by a GP first, usually. Dental is not covered unless it is serious enough that you are hospitalized. People with low income, and seniors, generally have drug and dental coverage. Eyeglasses is another expense that most working people pay out of pocket, or have an employment benefit to cover. Some provinces even cover the cost of in vitro for a few round of trying.
Basically, if you have a serious incident, the biggest loss is likely to be loss of wages. If you are off work for more than 2 weeks, IIRC, unemployment insurance kicks in. If you are lucky and have a good job with good benefits, Accident and Sickness is a typical benefit that will pay lost wages after a week or two waiting period - or some will pay starting immediately if you are hospitalized. So for a lot of people, there is not a lot left over as a loss to sue for.