Let’s say I work at a company where we have a machine that makes doo-dads. I look at something, let’s say a paperclip, and say “Hmm, I wonder if the machine could make paperclips.” I measure the paperclip and take a photo of it on my cell phone, clock out and go home and use that info to create a computer file for the machine to use, like a 3D model. I save it to a cloud service, then I go into work and use the file to have the doo-dad machine make a paperclip, show it to the boss and offer to make all our paperclips to save a few bucks and he says ok.
Do I own the file?
What if there are many styles of paperclips and with the company’s blessing I often take photos and measurements of them at work and go home to make files that I bring to work to make different style paperclips? The sole reason I am doing all this is for the company but not because they hired me to or asked me to, just voluntarily to help out and save a few bucks. I am measuring at work, creating the file for free at home, then using the file at work.
IANAL, but if the file was designed in your head during off hours, and was created using your private computer, then I would say it’s your file to do with as you wish, even if you brought it into work, however if you use the company’s machine to make something using the file then the company would own the thing that was made, regardless of where the file originally came from.
If the company could somehow prove that you conceived of the file while at work, and used the company’s computer to create the file, then it’s clearly their file. In general, mixing your own personal projects with work is usually a bad idea.
This is a big concern in some technical positions, and can be covered in the employment contract. Most of the jobs I’ve had required me to sign a contract that says any inventions/IP I generate are either owned by the company, or the company has the option to own it at their discretion. This is specifically stated to be regardless of how the invention was created - personal or company time, personal or company property, etc.
Absent such an agreement, I don’t know what the law says.
Thanks for the replies. I will consult an attorney if it comes to that.
There are no IP clauses. IP isn’t really a concern in this industry. It’s like working for a restaurant or something where IP isn’t an issue because people don’t normally start manufacturing silverware for the boss. But in this case, I kinda did.
The company owner wouldn’t care because it would, at most, make $10,000 a year for our one company, but the company is being sold to a corporation that owns 200 other companies. There is no indication that they know about this or would be interested in it, but if anyone has the imagination to put those numbers together…
This is a puzzler. It seems to me that if the creation were something like a nifty database that your company is now using, then they pretty much own it, since you didn’t claim prior art in some way by charging them or providing a license. However, if you used a factory’s sewing machine to make your design of custom uniforms for the employees, I’d say you still own the pattern…in the sense that you could make it for other people.
In some ways I think the answer depends on what you want to do with your “ownership.”
I’ve been thinking about this for a couple days and I think I may need to talk to a lawyer.
The end creation itself isn’t unique and isn’t patented or copyrighted. What is unique is that I have files for about 300 different styles and I doubt anyone else in the world does. The reason, I suspect, is that no one who would be interested in this has access to all the different types and anyone with access normally wouldn’t think to produce them. I’ve sort of crossed fields, the machine I use isn’t normally used in my field. It’s like being a microwave repairman and having a 3D printer that is capable of making microwave handles. The repairman would never think of it and someone with a 3D printer would never go buy 300 different microwaves to make handle patterns.
I don’t know what I want to do with ownership, if I have it. With the company now, it is sort of a hobby that made a few thousand per year. But the company taking us over has 200 other locations. The more I think about it, the costs to do this full time would be minimal. I’m starting to think they could make a serious profit with my files. It has also occurred to me that they could fire me and take my files. It has also occurred to me that there are distributors out there that can reach 2,000 companies.
I’d say that absent this agreement, the company has no recourse under law … ergo … the intellectual property created at home belongs to the person, not the company.
Back in the early days of personal computing my school formulated a policy on this. If you had a PC that you had bought yourself (no one did; they were all bought with research funds that belonged to the university) and developed software on it then it belonged to you, provided there was no support from the university. To explain the latter clause the example of support they gave was that if you had a diskette with the software on it in your briefcase and put the briefcase on the floor of your office, then the floor of the office was supporting the weight of the diskette. Of course, that floor was supporting the weight of the diskette even before you set the briefcase down.
I’m probably overthinking all this. It may be a stupid idea anyway, the files may never amount to anything. But I have a plan…
I also made printouts of my work for reference. They’re not the least bit important, and I’ve been quietly “cleaning up” my printout cabinet before the takeover. My boss is getting like $20 million to retire in 5 days, he doesn’t care about anything, so I was thinking about going to him and saying “I think the files probably belong to me, but I’d like have the printouts to help me organize my files. Would you sign something saying you sold me all the files and printouts just to help clarify it? Ya know, in case I decide to leave, it might help me get a job.”
Then I’m gonna try like hell to find a new job by next Monday and steer clear of the new corporation.
That’s a concern, but I think I’m in the clear. People sell related parts that are much more visible. My small part should be in the clear. I think the distributor will know, if I talk to them, but it is on my mind.
They could, but it wouldn’t be easy. Their guy would have to go around for six months collecting patterns. There’s also no indication that they’d be interested. They seem to be nothing more than a corporate HQ that buys companies like ours and watches spreadsheets to make sure everyone’s producing the right numbers.
On the other hand, they are a large corporation and have a lot of money. If they want to open a small manufacturing office, they can. If my new manager sees what I do, he could take my files and send them up the chain and get a fat bonus. Heck, he could fire me and say he found the files in an old computer. They may also make me a well paid head of production, but I don’t trust that to happen.
From what you said, it looks no different than anyone working on a project at home. I don’t think your argument would hold up in court.
I write software for my job. Sometimes, I write software at home for my job. It’s not like my boss tells me exactly what to write. Sometimes I write utility programs that make things compile faster or run better. My boss didn’t tell me to do those things–they’re just a normal part of the job. If I took those performance enhancing utilities as my own and tried to sell them, my company would likely sue me.
It would be different if my at-home programs had nothing to do with my normal job. If I’m writing operating system code, then an iphone game would be okay. But it sounds like these types of files are a normal part of your job. Maybe you found a new way to do things, but it’s so similar to your existing job that the company would likely want ownership.
And if the company is currently using the files, I don’t think you can now take them as your own. Unless you had some sort of license agreement which said you retained ownership, the assumption would be that this was normal work you did for the company. At the point you gave them to the company, you probably lost ownership of them.
I talked to my boss today and he agreed that they were mine and said he’d sign something to the effect. I’m sure it’s still a gray area and he could have said no and he’d see me in court, but he’s not looking to pick a fight.
I had said, “I was doing some thinking, and with computer files, if it’s not related to your normal job and you work on them at home, they might be yours. They may not be in my case, it’s kind of a gray area but…”
“Well, they belong to you as far as I’m concerned. That was your baby and I know you did a lot of work at home on it. I see you going off and doing that full time and as far as I’m concerned, any files related to it are completely yours.”
So that was that. I was a little shocked that he already thought of me doing that stuff full time. I bet he’s thinking I might make these things at home and go around to a few companies in the area and get them to buy my stuff, but I’m thinking of a national distributor instead. The distributor might still laugh me out of the building, but peddling my wares door to door is definitely plan B.
Next question…does your boss have the right to bind the company to a legal document? Him agreeing is all well and good, but if he doesn’t have that right, then all it amounts to is potential evidence, not explicit permission.
Based on the money talked about above, it seems like he might be important enough to do so…but it’s worth understanding.
Sorry, I had talked about it in the workplace griping thread in the other forum but I didn’t explain it very well here. “The boss” is the owner of the company. He’s in his 60s and wants to retire and is selling the company to a corporation on Friday. It looks like the corporation won’t know enough to cause a stink. If I can find another job by Monday they’ll never know my files or I existed. If I continue to work there and they do become interested in my files, this will hopefully cover me when I leave.
I also work in an industry where I have to assign any inventions, and it occasionally comes up when someone does something on their own time, unrelated directly, and a company gets greedy. I’m in pharmaceutical development, and the example (almost real) would be a pharm dev chemist coming up with a new cat litter. This happened, but not at a pharma company.
Given how much attention they pay to these agreements, I think in the absence of one, and given the tangential nature of your work, and finally given that the new ownership likely doesn’t know what they don’t know, just move forward with your project, quietly, making sure to never cross the streams.
