Intelligent Design

This is not a religious debate.

Ok I dont know the exact number of genetic strands which need to be place in the correct order for life…but lets put it in the millions.

remember…they have to be in the correct order…one out of order would be deemed fatal.

now lets look at the possibility of it happening randomly with a comparison.

If you came home and found 1000 rocks scattered throughout your driveway you would say they were placed there randomly.

Now if you came home and found 1000 rocks lined up in a straight line sorted from smallest to largest you would…using common sense, BELIEVE that they were put them with some sort of intelligent order.
When you read moby dick and the pages are in numberical order…I guess you would believe they were put that way by intelligent design.

If you took all the pages from Moby dick, dropped them from a plane.what are the odds that they would land in numberical order…astronomical odds.
to say our strands are random seems to be out of the question…remember that evolution is strictly random.
I dont care what you believe, God,allah,aliens.
But to believe that the universe was created from nothing is just dumb…

try this…take nothing and make something !! cant do it !!

Are you saying that, given an eternity to work with, it is impossible for any of these things to happen?

I’m sorry, but who makes this claim, again?

Hmmm…rocks in a row…Moby dick…something from nothing…HOLY CRAP! I’m convinced. This abiogenesis crap is for the birds. It is hard for me to believe that these powerful and logical arguments haven’t even been considered. It just goes to show how narrow-minded evolutionary biologists and their demon ilk are when they come fact-to-face with the power of TRUTH. Preach on Brother!!


BTW you do realise that the Theory of Evolution is entirely congruent with ID, don’t you?
Now think what that means for free will…

No, this is called a mutation, and they are not invariably fatal. Most mutations are harmful, or even fatal to be sure. But once in a while, one confers a positive benefit to its carrier, and is passed on to subsequent generations. This is the fundamental basis of evolution.

Here’s your problem; evolution isn’t random. It’s called natural SELECTION for a reason; selection takes place, it just isn’t (necessarily) by a higher power.

Anybody who actually believes in intelligent design hasn’t done the rudimentary investigation into how a human being is actually put together and therefore doesn’t realize that our bodies are pretty far from intelligently designed. An engineering undergrad could do a better job of constructing a biped than the so-called intelligent designer ostensibly did. Even a cursory familiarity with biology and zoology is sufficient to demonstrate that humans are largely slapped together from barely-adapted parts of the critters that preceded us.

I can’t dispute that, for completeness one should note that the underlying biochemistry and cell biology is extremely sophisticated, and we are a long, long way from duplicating, let alone designing, that.

Well, maybe you would…

What if the rocks are in an area with where powerful gusts of wind are noted? Naturally enough, the large rocks move very little but the smaller rocks move slightly more. Repeat one billion times and as you approached from upwind, you’d note big rocks, then medium-sized rocks, all the way to itty-bitty rocks. Is it intelligent design, or just force applied over a very very very long period of time?

Your argument is ignorant, I expect willfully.

Abiogenesis != evolution. How life began has zip to do with how the theory of evolution describes it changing over time.

I don’t get why people argue for intelligent design. If you believe in God and that he created the universe (as problematic as these things are) then you can always believe that he created everything science has observed. I don’t believe this but it’s a better argument than trying to counter science with sciencyishness.

I doubt there will be any point arguing with you, but I’ll tell you what:

If I came home and found a bunch of rocks all lined up, and then noticed there was some process going on that causes rock configurations to keep changing under time, a process under which lined-up and near-lined-up formations of rocks are fairly stable, then it wouldn’t be terribly surprising at all. Similarly, if I found all the pages of Moby Dick in order, and saw that there was some sort of filter in the environment that kept re-shuffling the pages whenever they were far off from order, that again wouldn’t be surprising. Even though the underlying mechanism of change may be random mutation, the close correlation between one moment’s state and the next’s as well as the order of the filtering process lead to a basic inevitably that the system will tend towards landing in and persisting in a state which is stable under the filter.

I mean, what do you think? You have a bunch of organisms which reproduce in such a way that offspring tend towards similarity with their parents, but with all sorts of randomness in the way of exact equality, giving a good base of diversity (mutations, sexual reproduction, etc.). Then you have an environment under which some traits lead to better reproductive success then other traits (by influencing ability to survive, most prominently, but that need not be the sole way). What force do you propose nullifies this differential reproductive success, to prevent the prevalence of a given trait from changing from generation to generation in a manner reflective of the order imposed by the environment? Seems to me simple mathematical fact that, without such an intrusive force, the system will tend to be highly maximized (at least, locally speaking) after enough passage of time.


By the way, this:

…is ludicrous bullshit. One out of order is a mutation, which might be fatal or it might present an advantage. Repeat over a hundred million generations, with a few strands going “out of order” now and then, and the end result is significantly different than the start, with no God/Allah/Aliens needed.

ID proponents simply can’t grasp what a billion years can do, so it’s easier to think <God + thousands of years = us>.

Supposing you put a variety of marbles of three different sizes in a jar; little teeny ones, medium sized one, and large ones. Then you shook the jar enough that them marbles could shift around, but not upending the jar at all.

The marbles will sort themselves! Large ones on top, then meduim ones, then small ones! Order coming out of chaos! OMG!! It’s a miracle!!!1!!!111One1!11!

Actually it’s not. There’s a natural process at work, and if you study it and think about it you can figure out how it works. The same thing goes for evolution.

b_wad, you are making the mistake (common to critics of evolution) of thinking that evolutionists believe that order must have arisen all at once. Of course, the odds of a human organism arising all at once are highly improbable. But that’s what evolution helps us explain–how something that has minimal order can become increasingly complex over time–lots and lots of time (and very very slowly). A great book explaining this is Richard Dawkins’ Climbing Mount Improbable. If you actually care about this debate, and are not just posting here in hopes of winning some converts, you will go read that book (or one like it).

But… but… the marbles can’t gain order, it’s… thermoduhnamics or something!

Who, apart from you, believes that evolution is random?

I’d say it’s partly random, in the sense that the organism that has the breakthrough mutation that could eventually puts its descendants in a dominant position over the Earth dies when it gets hit by lightning, bringing that promising line to an abrupt halt.
In your face, pygmy marmosets!