Intergration/Separation (Call to Jens)

I saw Jens mention this in one of the race threads. It was basically asked what’s the big deal with intergration. If groups choose to separate themselves based on race, ethnicity, whatnot why deny that. I want to call that one up for elaboration. Is integration even a achievable goal.

(Oh. everybody feel free to comment)

Thank you and goodnight.

To put it more bluntly:
What benefits does segregation provide. And intergration.

"In high school, there was the East cafeteria and the west cafeteria…no one imposed this rule on us, but the East cafeteria was frequented by black students and the west cafeteria was frequented by white students…there was never a problem and no one ever forced us to “mix”.
Are you asking what the benefit of this is? I am not sure I completely understand the question, but let me say, that I brought this point up simply as speculation and not because I feel strongly in one regard or the other. It seemed, at the time, like no big deal (it was in the late 70’s) and it was a natural separation not a forced one. Actually, I was asking in a round-about way, if given a choice and equal resources in all regards, would blacks and whites chose to be separate?

I got flamed for that, but the last attempt at “separate but equal” was not actually equal and therefore a failure. Everyone took it to mean that I was suggesting separation, but I was really just asking for some input.

Jen, the whole point of Brown vs. the Board of Education was not that “seperate” was not equal in that particular case, but that “seperate but equal” was impossible and a contradiction in terms. The supreme court ruled (and I think they ruled well) that the act of legally banning a group from attending a school constituted inequality in and of itself and thus violated the fourteenth amendment. “Seperate but equal” did not fail; it was never possible.

As to intergration as a whole, I think it will evintually be successful, most likly because of interracial marriges, much as the Irish were absorbed into American culture. However, never fear, society will divide over something else. The ability of mankind to divide into groups and abuse each other is truly remarkable. At least in America we seem to have found a system that so far seems to let us avoid (for the most part) the kind of mass killings this basic human instict seems to lead to.

Voluntary or involuntary?

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Voluntary…forced would never work

The distinction we seem to be groping for here is between what’s public (not government) and what’s personal. Race should not be a deciding factor in anything other than the handful of cases where it is pertinent. (Such as if I’m conducting a market analysis for a chain of tanning salons – I would be a fool not to take racial demographics into account.)

But if a group of blacks - or a group of whites - feels more comfortable associating only with each other, that’s something that only time will cure – if it in fact needs curing. The people I’m close to all happen to be white – which has more to do with growing up in a small town with only three black families than with any segregatory mental attitude. I was very close to an interracial couple, he a retired black Army master sergeant from Bogalusa LA who was the only honest used car dealer in town, she a former German war bride who taught me half of what I know about business procedures when she was my boss years ago. If I don’t like rap music, that’s taste, not prejudice; I can hear the hurt and anger it expresses, but don’t care for the style in which it does it. I don’t see this as any more prejudiced than a lack of fondness for polkas makes me anti-Polish.

If people choose to associate with those with whom they have most in common, that’s human nature. If it happens to be those of their ethnoracial background, that’s the product of (sad) history. It’s their privilege. Otherwise you get “everything not forbidden is compulsory.” (A useful new strand would be how school administrators seem to espouse that philosophy!)


I completely agree with you that telling a group of people that they cannot do something because they are different is racist and is forced segregation.

Hypothetically speaking, if a city opened two new high schools with equal facilities and equally qualified teachers and the city told the students to pick a school, I believe that a natural segregation would occur as students would chose to attend the school with students that they know or students who are most like them.

United we stand. Divided we fall.

Jen, thanks for clearing that up. Hypothetical school situation: what reasons would they choose to go the schools they would go to. Why are their friends who they are? Why aren’t they friends with those they choose to not be friends with. It could be a sign of some deeper discord. Or it could be just a fluke. But thanks for clearing one little bit up Jen.