Having been reading about “new urbanism” lately, I decided to take a quick trip to check out a supposed local example, the Middleton Hills development in Middleton, Wisconsin. While driving around the development I passed through a number of intersections (four-way and three-way) with nary a stop sign, yield sign, or anything. Can that possibly be allowed under various laws? It seems so dangerous! (Like any properly trained driver, I must believe that everyone on the road is an idiot and could not create order in an intersection without the help of traffic control signs.)
That sounds like something they would have tested out in Massachusetts. Are these roads in large subdivisions that you are talking about? I have seen some sprawling ones with flowing road patterns and little traffic set up like that. If it is all private property then I don’t think regular traffic laws apply although it is still a good idea for liability reasons.
I don’t understand this question at all.
Here in Minneapolis, the majority of street intersections are uncontrolled intersections.
The traffic department even has a formula for this, they try to have a minimum of 2 blocks between intersections with signs. People frequently contact their City Council member, asking for a stop sign at a particular intersection near their house; the traffic engineers regularly advise against this because it would be too near other signs, and would interfere with traffic flow.
Clearly these are legal here in Minnesota. The traffic laws even have a section of rules controlling right-of-way at such intersections. (Driver turning yields to driver going straight, driver yields to driver on right, etc.) You’re required to learn these in driver training, and are tested on them in your drivers’ license exam.
Interesting… certainly where I come from (Ohio) I’ve never seen a four-way intersection with no sign. A driver will not stop unless there is a stop sign.
I’d grant that people would figure out three-way T intersections, though.
I should also mention that thus far every intersection I’ve driven through in the Madison area has had some sort of sign, although I’ve only been here a few months and I don’t know what the rules might be. (I guess that’s obvious, since I asked the question.)
That’s not normal in Madison. They over do stop signs untill all the trafic has to stop. Privite roads are not required to have stop signs.
Legal? Why not? I seriously doubt there are laws requiring the state/county/city/whatever to ensure that every intersection has signage. The laws require motorists to obey the signage if it’s there, or follow a certain protocol if it’s not.
In Kansas City, the Country Club Plaza (tony shopping district) has quite a few uncontrolled intersections. People generally know to be cautious and courteous, and it works. The accident rate in that area is low.
Whether uncontrolled intersections are wise is another question. In certain situations they don’t pose a problem, and might even be advantageous. In other situations they would be disastrous. I’m sure traffic planners carefully consider various factors in their decisions about them.
Yep. In Australia, the law (in the traffic handbook) specifies what to do if (paraphrasing here) “signs are missing or displaced, for example as the result of an accident, or if traffic lights are not functioning”. It also accounts for dirt roads in the outback.
“Approach the intersection with caution, and be prepared to stop. Give way to vehicles approaching from your right, or to any vehicle if there is a risk of a collision. If a “STOP” or “GIVE WAY” sign is missing, the lines painted on the road have the same legal meaning.”
Something like that. In the US, it’d probably be “yield to the left”, but I’d say your laws would have that scenario covered.
I did learn such rules for unsigned intersections in Ohio, but the only unsigned intersections I ever saw were when traffics light went out. What I don’t get is how a driver would know that an intersection is unsigned. In all my experience, if I approached an intersection like the ones I mentioned in the OP and saw no stop sign or any other sign facing me (nor lines painted on the road, etc.), it has been absolutely a safe assumption that the cross street has the stop sign and that I can sail on through. In fact, at one of these particular unsigned intersections today–one with not the best visibility, I might add–I recall seeing someone drive right through on the cross street as I was approaching. It’s a good thing I wasn’t there yet and that I did stop anyway, I guess. Personally I’m cautious enough to look for signs and stop if I see none, but I wouldn’t trust everyone to do that, especially when they don’t expect it.
I suppose it makes sense that the laws wouldn’t require signs at every single intersection, but I’d have thought that applied more to itty bitty streets and middle-of-nowhere roads than to ordinary residential streets. (Don’t know if the streets I was on are private, but they didn’t appear to be.)
We also have plenty of uncontrolled intersections around here, when two “minor” roads intersect. The Washington Driver Guide (PDF) explains:
We generally yield to the right here too, such as when two cars approach a 4-way stop at the same time. (When four cars approach at the same time, I guess they have to call the governor to make an exception. ;))
That’s a dangerous assumption in most parts of the country.
You don’t have to stop (at least in this state), but you should look for signs on the cross street and get ready to stop if you see anyone coming.
Ordinary residential streets are itty bitty streets, relatively speaking. Often they don’t even have center lines.
We have 4-way uncontrolled intersections all over the place in India. Signals are usually on the major roads, but side streets don’t have any stop signs. Even signals on major roads are usually ignored between 1a.m. and 6a.m., and the intersection is treated like a 4-way uncontrolled intersection. Accidents are rare.
Traffic flow is usually smooth. While the US follows a “first in, first out” type of system at stop signs, in India it’s like 5-10 cars at a time at uncontrolled intersections, followed by another 5-10 cars from another direction, depending on the traffic density in a given direction.
On one or two extremely rare occasions, I have seen a complete gridlock where 4 cars in the middle of the intersection are each blocking the other’s path, and there are tens of cars behind each, so there’s no place for reversing. Then all the drivers come out of their cars to give directions to the other drivers and it’s a fun 45 minutes before any car actually moves.
Common in Oregon in residential areas:
Note the key parts of the rules:
You don’t have to stop if there is no one else coming.
If there is another car it becomes a four way stop.
There is no such thing as a preferred direction. All roads are equal.
(This last aspect of intersections is widely ignored all over the country even when there is signage. Sigh.)
Illinois has tons of these uncontrolled intersections. I believe they do a traffic study, and a certain amount of traffic warrants a traffic control sign or device. The intersection my dad lives next to doesn’t even have a yield sign. It’s been like that for 45 years. No big deal. I believe there’s a rule about yielding to the guy on the right if you both approach at the same time.