Dear Commander-in-Chief of the Armed Forces of the United States of America, President George W. Bush:
After living in Pakistan for about a month and having experienced what life in Pakistan really is like, I would like to extend to the Bodies of Government and the Armed Forces of the United States of America an invitation. I invite you to send massive forces to Pakistan with which to invade, conquer, and annex the Islamic Republic of Pakistan.
Pakistan is currently divided into siX significant administrative areas:
The Province of Sindh (provincial capital: Karachi)
The Province of Balochistan (provincial capital: Quetta)
The Province of Panjab (provincial capital: Lahore)
The North-west Frontier Province (often abbreviated to “NWFP”) (provincial capital: Peshawar)
The Federally-administered Tribal Areas (often abbreviated to “FATA”)
The disputed territory of Jammu and Kashmir (capital: Srinagar)
The current national capital is the city of Islamabad; the military is headquartered at Rawalpindi near Islamabad.
Because of Pakistan’s current administrative organization, the United States of America can add on five or six more states (the number depends on whether the government wants to keep the disputed area of Jammu and Kashmir or to permit India to annex it).
As states of America, I am sure that the standard of life will be able to improve dramatically. Some reasons why I think so are as follows:
US laws will permit substantial freedom of religion, expression, and writing, which do not currently exist;
US laws will prohibit religious parties from participating in politics, whereby the Muttahida Majlis-e-Amal will cease to be a bother to the government and the people of the area;
the subsequent investment by US firms and by the Government will help the economy;
US laws will prohibit the use of the shari’ah as law, permitting greater justice, freedom, liberty, and relief to the people of the area;
US laws will bring a swift end to the corruption pandemic plaguing the people;
Some benefits of annexing Pakistan are:
US firms would be able to exploit the IT potential here without having to depend on India, thereby elevating the people’s standards here and continuing to permit US firms to save more money;
Pakistan has such wonderful terrains where people of all countries may come and relax and gape in awe at natural beauty;
the US will gain a few nuclear warheads for free;
as a part of the United States, the Government can ensure there will be no proliferation of nuclear technology to Iran, Libya, North Korea, or other states whom the Government wishes not to receive such technology;
US forces will be able to finally extirpate the Taliban and operatives of al-Qaeda in South Asia without having to worry about infringing on the sovereignty of any nation;
as a part of the United States, the Government can ensure that Pakistan will no longer be a hotbed of terrorist activity
Such an undertaking would be seriously costly, if not difficult, but think of all the lives you would be improving and think of all the gains the US will be able to receive.
What’s this doing in MPSIMS? A political rant calling for the invasion of a nation?
In anticipation of this going straight to the pit, I never see your name, WeRSauron, without it being attached to some kind of dig aimed at Muslims or ‘Islamic’ nations. All the forums are full of your semi-veiled rants.
In GQ, it’ll be “So do Muslims really believe the rest of us go to hell?”
GD - “8th century thought vs intelligent modern philosophies.”
CS - “The Qu’ran as purple prose”
IMHO - “Am I a better person now I’m not a Muslim?”
MPSIMS - “Kitten pictures - why the filthy Muslims hate them!”
The Pit - “Fuck Muslims!!”
Ah, I did put this in the wrong forum. I hope a Moderator would be so kind as to move it to Great Debates.
This thread was actually inspired by my mother. During the beginning stages of the operation in Iraq, a relative at a dinner party commented rather loudly, “Pakistan is going to be next!” When I told this to my mother when we got home, she informed me that if she with the group,* she would have wanted to reply,** “Insha’ Allah!” which basically translates by connotation to mean, “I hope so!”
The relative was male and thus was among the male relatives, while my mother was with the female relatives. Our gatherings tend to be segregated by sex. I think it’s a cultural thing or something.
** My mother being the polite, quiet type she is, would never have actually expressed that.
The debate lies in this question: what other benefits might the US gain from invading and annexing Pakistan?
(For Atticus Finch, We regret to inform you that We do not deem your comments to be worth responding to. If you wish to discuss this further with Us, please start a thread in the Pit; We request that you send Us a link thereto via email whereby We may elect to participate in a witty duel of words with you. Thank you.)
I have visited Jammu and Srinagar and my passport was stamped by India.
And my understanding was that India did not ‘annex’ Kashmir. When Pakistan was created, Kashmir was ruled by a majarish who was given a choice which side of the line he wished to be on. Until that time his only border problems had been with the Chinese and the British Raj had willingly sent him military support. Based on that, in one of the greatest mistakes of history, he decided to cast his lot with India. And the poor people of Kashmir suffer terribly, ever since then. Culturally, ethnically, religiously - they so clearly belong on the other side of the line.
This is how it was told to me, perhaps I am misinformed.
One version I heard was that the Maharajah, who was a Hindu, was leaning on having his territory become a part of Pakistan, but when Pakistani troops violated his borders, assuming he was going to side with Pakistan, he was quite upset at their pretentiousness and gave his territory to India.
I do think he should have given his territory to Pakistan, but I think it is irrelevant. India is a pluralistic state. It is not a Hindu republic, unlike Pakistan which is quite vocally an Islamic republic. So whether Kashmir is part of Pakistan or India, it really shouldn’t matter. After all, majority-Muslim Bangaldesh was part of Pakistan but now is no longer a part of Pakistan.
What might be in the best interest of Kashmiris might be being an independent state. Perhaps the “war” between Pakistan and India over Kashmir would then rise to realm of trade, foreign policy, economy, and money. But neither Pakistan nor India wants Kashmir to be independent. I think India’s reason is far more serious: if Kashmir, which India touts as a part of the Republic, becomes independent, it might add fuel to various separatist movements in India. The same may happen in Pakistan, what with the Balochis and Pakhtun peoples becoming more vocal with regard to their interests.
Well maybe. I still don’t think that explains completely the extreme stance of either nation. Or at least it still baffles me somewhat. It’s got them talking about neuclear exchanges. Is Kashmir really that important?
In all fairness, I think this is a little rough on WeRSauron. He’s definitely seems a bit embittered about aspects of his former religion, but I’ve never seen him wholesale trash it - just it’s more reactionary elements ( of which there are many ). Most ex-fill-in-the-blank tend to have some issues with fill-in-the-blank, which is why they are ex-fill-in-the-blank in the first place.
That said, the OP is better suited to a Pit rant. An invasion of Pakistan is a ludicrous proposition considering the current state of the world. If a violent coup enshrined a reactionary, openly and intensly hostile government, then maybe you’d have the justification and even then I’d advocate a defensive posture.
Pakistan is Iraq times ten. Or twenty. Their army won’t roll over like Iraq’s, the population is vastly larger, the terrain far more difficult in all the worst places ( xenophobic and reactionary tribal areas ), a much larger segment of the populace is radicalized to begin with and there are next to no natural pro-U.S. constituencies that would welcome “liberation” ( a la the Kurds and Shi’a ) - for example the Baluchi have no pro-western leanings far as I can tell ( why should they, the U.S. has been backing their oppressors for decades ), the Pashtun are largely reactionary and unrelentingly hostile to everyone and the Shi’a of Pakistan, however harassed, are in ways a majority of the population and at least loosely somewhat better integrated into Pakistan than their co-religionists were in Iraq ( and a fair number of the Ithna-ashari Shi’a are radicalized as well -witness counter-massacres ).
Never mind the foreign policy repercussions. No, invading Pakistan would be a disaster. And currently Musharraf is far to valuable to the administration.
As for Kashmir, both sides have a pretty hefty burden of blame. India may be democratic, but it is also fiercely nationalistic, hence it’s traditional refusal to allow a plebiscite.
I think you mean presumptuousness, unless the Pakistani military was wearing black berets, sipping espresso and discussing the French film industry and its efforts to resist American imperialism.
If I remember correctly, Hawaii used to have aspirations of becoming independent of the US (the statehood wasn’t quite cut and dry). And then the Japanese came and bombed Hawaii. Then the US dropped a couple of nucular bombs on Japan. Is Hawaii really that important?
I hope you get my point
elbows, I’ve also been to Kashmir and I think I would slightly disagree with this:
The Kashmiris are a wily bunch. Whilst it is not easy living in a war zone, they do get certain benefits. Part of the trade off for living under occupation by Indian troops is that they don’t pay taxes to the government. Also, they have a permanent presence of thousands of troops who all buy things, so their economy is not so bad. In more peaceful times, Kashmir’s main income comes from tourism but tourism tends to be seasonal. The Indian army, on the other hand are there all year round. So, in a strange kind of way, the army subsides the lack of tourists.
Of course, they still get some tourists as well (the mad bastards like me and you who don’t give a shit about the dangers of getting kidnapped. Mujahadeen? Ha! I laugh at them).
I would say that it is far from clear that they “belong” on the Pakistani side of the divide, or that they themselves even want to be on that side. Yes they are muslim but culturally they are completely different from anything in either Pakistan or India. They have their own food, their own language, their own clothing. Geographically they are separated from Pakistan and India by the highest range of mountains in the world.
I understand (but could be wrong) that they even have a slightly different form of islam to that followed in Pakistan. If ever there was a country that ought to be independent, it’s Kashmir. The people I spoke to told me that they would accept being part of India or part of Pakistan but what they really wanted was to be independent.
The main thing they want, though, is for the war to stop and all the troops (Indian and Pakistani) to leave so that they can get on with doing what they do best, which is selling things to tourists. If there was no war going on they would be an extremely rich people - Kashmir is the most beautiful place I’ve ever been to. If India and Pakistan left them alone, there would be no trouble there at all - they don’t have any grievances among themselves.
I would agree that Kashmir is one of the most beautiful places I have ever visited. However some of what you said I must disagree with. I get quasi regular mail from there and it is always filled with the suffering of Kashmir. The tourist industry is taking a huge hit, things are getting blown up, people are dying, this has been going on for so long.
My understanding is that there was once a supply road directly from Pakistan into Kashmir. A route of vital importance when the passes to India would be blocked by ice and snow every year. The only source of fresh vegetables and fruit for those months, India decided it was a highway for terrorists and closed it. My understanding is that the people suffer, as the price of such commodities rises every winter as the supply dwindles.
As for conflicts within, when I was there the Kashmiri traders were pissed with the Ladhaki’s and burned the central market to the ground. There were rock throwing riots in Leh ! So I would have to say things are not as calm internally as you might believe.
Most Kashmiri families with teenage sons seek desperately to send them away; to school, to work, to family in other states, out of fear they will be consumed in the turmoils that continue to embroil this part of the world.
I found the Kashmiri people to be remarkable and exceedingly warm and friendly.
