iPhone 3.0 countdown.

[Declan]

@Munch

OK - that makes sense. ** But other than a fundamental shift that the iPhone was, where else do they have to go?** Isn’t it reliant upon the app developers at this point? The only thing I can think of that would be a huge leap would be document production (knowing that there are a few apps out there that touch on this).

Well thats it , so to speak. I dont think the phone R&D is going to have another radical shift in terms of what it can do for the next 3 to 5 years. Most everyone now is pretty much devoting resources to netbooks rather than hand helds. Regarding the App developers , whats still left to be seen is what the new economics bring with the in-app pricing, and how many developers choose to stay with apple, from what I understand and may have wrong, is that most of the apps on the iphone can be ported over to the pre with no real problem.

Declan

[SenorBeef]

Are they making a new gen ipod touch? The battery in mine is going and I’d have to consider getting a new one if they improve the battery life significantly, maybe if they came out with a 64gb version…

@Unintentionally_Blank

Apple’s value proposition is different from everybody else’s. My first gen iPhone does a LOT more than it did when I got it, and it’ll do more in a few weeks. Who else takes a product they’re no longer making any money off of, and makes it better?

They’re not doing charity work. Part of the fee AT&T charges is a development fee for the iphone software. Ipod touch users have to pay $10 for 3.0. And they hope the new software causes a few people reluctant to get an iphone to get one.

[Lantern]

While not wanting to draw the mod’s attention with a personal attack, if you’d USED an iphone for any period of time, after spending any time with the crop at the time of the iphone’s release, it’d be apparent how much further ahead they were than everybody else.

Oh nonsense. There were so many holes in the original iPhone it’s ridiculous to argue that it was objectively better than the other phones availabe at that time. Perhaps it was for you and good for you but it most certainly wasn’t me and still isn’t.

For example I like to use my camera as a make-shift scanner to photograph text. Couldn’t do that with the first iPhone without autofocus or any till this one. There is a whole bunch of third-party software I used in 2007. Not possible with iPhone 2007 without jailbreaking. I sometimes use my phone as a modem to go online on my PC. Not possible and still not possible until some future announcement by AT&T. I could probably list a dozen things that I use every day that I couldn’t do with the original iPhone.

If you like your iPhone great but don’t expect everyone to agree that the iPhone is some kind of technological marvel far ahead of the competition because it isn’t.

[Declan]

@pricciar

I realize this new phone isn’t the huge upgrade that 3g was over the original, or what the iPhone itself was when it first came out. But, I disagree with the statement is in any way close to Motorala and the razor.

Well the reason I used the razor , was that it was the only other phone thats had that same kind of market appeal, and at a certain point all it could really do was to add a memory card, the 3g network and a slimmer profile, but that was it as far as that phone could go.

I don’t understand why MMS was not included from the start- that is one feature that should have always been there. But, aside from that, I don’t agree with your statement that all of these upgrades bring them up to a phone it should have been 2 years ago. I mean it would have been great if they could have been there from the start, but for the most part I don’t see any of these features being something that they should have had from the start.

MMS could have been from the start, Apple says that the first generation phones are excluded from the OS upgrade, as there are “technical reasons” and yet swirly has been doing MMS on first gens for some time now.

Cut and Paste, bluetooth support, even tethering have been around on other phones for some time now, as far back as probably 02 with some WinMo devices. Not having these available on the original iphone launch is deplorable, but apple really needed to get the iphone out and selling so I could live with that , did not hurt that the original was never for sale and data was prohibitive in Canada at the time. But they should have been available in the 2.0 software upgrade.

Having a better camera at the time was possible,but it was a cost thing, so many million cameras your going to go with the best possible choice financially, but again when the 3g came out, at least the software side could have been a lot better. You would think that a device thats going to be used in Bars would have at least had better low light capability, that sony erricson had in its W810 series.

The bottom line is that hardware side of Apple supported everything thats been mentioned for the past two years, the problem has been where apple wants to see the device going, now that its out there and the only reason that we finally get stuff is that co-incidentally the Palm Pre launched.

Declan

[Declan]

Looks like its part billing and part technical

wonders never cease

Declan

[Unintentionally_Blank]

@Lantern

Oh nonsense. There were so many holes in the original iPhone it’s ridiculous to argue that it was objectively better than the other phones availabe at that time. Perhaps it was for you and good for you but it most certainly wasn’t me and still isn’t.

Except for, you know, the parts that WERE better. Not cut and paste, no MMS, I gotcha, but noone had the gui, the hardware, or the ties back to a well written application on the computer.

I plugged my phone in the first time and it got all my bookmarks, all my email accounts, all my addresses, and it didn’t even ask.

The phone, from day one, has never ever ever gone to the wrong page, or mis-dialed, or been in a funky state because it rubbed up against something in my backpack. It’s the first phone I’ve had that worked WELL in all lighting conditions, handled screen orientation all by itself, and made every aspect of the phone available in three button pushes or less.

Were there other phones with faster processors, bigger cameras, more storage, and a higher feature count? Sure. Were there any that worked BETTER? Nope.

For example I like to use my camera as a make-shift scanner to photograph text. Couldn’t do that with the first iPhone without autofocus or any till this one. There is a whole bunch of third-party software I used in 2007. Not possible with iPhone 2007 without jailbreaking. I sometimes use my phone as a modem to go online on my PC. Not possible and still not possible until some future announcement by AT&T. I could probably list a dozen things that I use every day that I couldn’t do with the original iPhone.

I use my iPhone to take pictures of error screens, price tags to compare things, and other stuff, but it’s a phone first, a music player second, and an internet access device third. Camera comes in at a distant 6th or 7th.(*) And…scanner? Sorry, that one’s never made the list.

If you like your iPhone great but don’t expect everyone to agree that the iPhone is some kind of technological marvel far ahead of the competition because it isn’t.

Nope. But on a usability level, it’s blown away EVERYTHING that predates the Pre. Even the G1. It’s never been about technology. It’s been about developing a product and actually USING IT. Tell me how may times you’ve picked something up and wondered if the manfacturer actually tried using it?

(Case in point from the Razor: address book, turning Bluetooth on, locking the side buttons, Case in point from Windows Moble: cycling the WiFi stack because it’s not seeing the local base station, IE mobile)

I’d hate to think where we’d be at right now if there WASN’T an Apple pushing this stuff.

Tethering? Yeah, I kinda miss it. But with the browser, SSH, and email clients on the iPhone, it’s not something I really miss, and using 200-250 Mb a month with JUST the phone, I can see why AT&T wouldn’t want everyone using their phone as a tether. The other big secret is: Data coming from A normal phone with a normal SIM and the ability to tether DOES NOT show up as tethered data. I had a PDA plan for years with tethering and never paid an additional dime. So. Take the biggest most popular phone on the market, make the tethering easy, and I’ll just bet AT&T’s nervous.
*= the sad thing is: Our little tit-for-tat here is already an anachronism. It’s going to seem pretty pedantic to someone with a phone 5 years from now, with 250 Gb of storage, HD video, and more bandwidth than my house has now.

[Unintentionally_Blank]

@SenorBeef

They’re not doing charity work. Part of the fee AT&T charges is a development fee for the iphone software. Ipod touch users have to pay $10 for 3.0. And they hope the new software causes a few people reluctant to get an iphone to get one.

Then why are they the first folks to actually do so?

I’ve had the occasional (like once) purchased upgrade from one version to another of WinMo, and another that I blatantly hacked because the vendor had no intention of upgrading…to marginal results.

Apple’s been the only one to frequently offer already sold devices improved performance and features, often for free(*).

(*=If you consider a $400 phone, and $65 a month for two years, a.k.a. near as much to $2000 as makes no difference)

In fact, it makes the competition’s behavior even worse when cast in that light.

[SenorBeef]

@Unintentionally_Blank

Except for, you know, the parts that WERE better. Not cut and paste, no MMS, I gotcha, but noone had the gui, the hardware, or the ties back to a well written application on the computer.

Wait, what? Using itunes is only slightly less unpleasant than being buttraped by a porcupine.

@Unintentionally_Blank

Then why are they the first folks to actually do so?

I’ve never owned a smart phone so I couldn’t tell you. I would imagine blackberry and those types of companies regularly upgrade their firmware. They also come out with new hardware constantly, whereas the iPhone brand is mostly intended to be upgraded through software.

You’re acting as if they’re patching some software they wrote years ago and give away for free now out of the goodness of their heart. They keep upgrading the iphone because they want to retain market dominance - you pay for the development in the $80/month you send to AT&T or the $10 you pay for the upgrade on the ipod touch.

[Unintentionally_Blank]

@SenorBeef

Wait, what? Using itunes is only slightly less unpleasant than being buttraped by a porcupine.

:rolleyes:

I’ve never owned a smart phone so I couldn’t tell you. I would imagine blackberry and those types of companies regularly upgrade their firmware. They also come out with new hardware constantly, whereas the iPhone brand is mostly intended to be upgraded through software.

They don’t.

You’re acting as if they’re patching some software they wrote years ago and give away for free now out of the goodness of their heart. They keep upgrading the iphone because they want to retain market dominance - you pay for the development in the $80/month you send to AT&T or the $10 you pay for the upgrade on the ipod touch.

So, uh, what about the $80 a month you pay for ANOTHER phone? It’s something that sets Apple apart from the competition. A fairly significant something.

[Jayrot]

It does speak worlds about Apple that when their twice-a-year announcements are merely evolutionary instead of revolutionary, everyone is quickly disappointed and underwhelmed.

That said, I’m extremely happy with my 2 day old Palm Pre.

[SenorBeef]

@Unintentionally_Blank

:rolleyes:

I’m certainly not the only one who thinks so. It’s atrociously bad.

They don’t.

So they’re still using the same OS and applications they wrote for their very first phone?

So, uh, what about the $80 a month you pay for ANOTHER phone? It’s something that sets Apple apart from the competition. A fairly significant something.

Yes, so they’re trying to use it as a way of luring people to buy their brand. You know, so they can profit. You’re acting like they’re doing it out of the goodness of their hearts. A humanitarian mission to share the greatness of Apple with the rest of humanity. Oh if only I could get a good sniff of their crotch!

[Unintentionally_Blank]

@SenorBeef

I’m certainly not the only one who thinks so. It’s atrociously bad.

Again. :rolleyes: “Oh if only I could get a good sniff of their crotch!” goes a long was to pleading your point.

So they’re still using the same OS and applications they wrote for their very first phone?

Yes, so they’re trying to use it as a way of luring people to buy their brand. You know, so they can profit. You’re acting like they’re doing it out of the goodness of their hearts. A humanitarian mission to share the greatness of Apple with the rest of humanity.

Find me another company that’s had three major OS revisions to their phones in less than three years, that extended to their older hardware and was given away at no additional cost over the original contract obligations and I’ll concede the point.

Otherwise, I’m not going to waste any more calories, I’m not going to convince you. Their competition has had the execution of a carload of clowns. It didn’t take much to beat the competition, and Apple’s done a whole lot more than the minimum to do so.

[SenorBeef]

Here’s what you said originally:

Apple’s value proposition is different from everybody else’s. My first gen iPhone does a LOT more than it did when I got it, and it’ll do more in a few weeks. Who else takes a product they’re no longer making any money off of, and makes it better?

They’re still making money off the iphone. Lots of it. They’re improving the iphone so that even more people buy the iphone, and that existing iphone customers stay with the iphone and the contract that AT&T gives kickbacks to apple for. Where do you get the idea that they’re no longer making money from the iphone?

I don’t actually know smart phones well enough to say they’re the only company significantly upgrading their software, so maybe that’s true. But the idea that Apple is doing it out of the goodness of their hearts because they won’t make any profit from it is absurd.

[Unintentionally_Blank]

@SenorBeef

Where do you get the idea that they’re no longer making money from the iphone?

The point you’re obviously missing:

Person A buys a HTC 2125 on a two year contract.

Person B buys an iPhone on a two year contract.

The difference? At the end of the contract the iPhone does substantially MORE than it did at the start of the contract. The 2125 does exactly the same as it did out of the box.

Oh, and the physical down button on the HTC no longer works. Personal Experience.

That’s One. Single. Aspect. It leaves out the App Store (50,000 apps), movie and music rentals and purchases, a well thought out user interface, an active hacker community…et. al.

[Rick]

I had a Razr for about 2 years before I got my iPhone 3G.
I paid over $250 for the Razr. Internet was shit, and painful to use. messaging worked but was a pain the in ass to use. As a phone it would not keep a bluetooth synced, all day long in my ear I would hear the boob,boob, boob of the phone dropping the headset, and then the Boop, Boop of it re-syncing 30 seconds later. This happened on multiple headsets from different vendors. The reception was a joke. Less bars in fewer places.
So I get my iPhone.
Everything just works. And works well. Bluetooth is rock solid. Using the same headsets I used with my razr they sync and never drop. Like the ad says more bars in more places. Using my iPhone in places where it was iffy at best with my Razr, I have no problems.
The cost difference? $5.00/month. My old plan was $75/ my new is $80. BFD.
Hands down the best phone I have ever used. (over the years I have probably had 20 different phones) You can have my iPhone when you pry it from my cold dead hands.

ETA: Motorola never updated the software for my Razr during the time I had it. And I would like to point out it needed updating.

[SenorBeef]

@Unintentionally_Blank

The point you’re obviously missing:

Person A buys a HTC 2125 on a two year contract.

Person B buys an iPhone on a two year contract.

The difference? At the end of the contract the iPhone does substantially MORE than it did at the start of the contract. The 2125 does exactly the same as it did out of the box.

Oh, and the physical down button on the HTC no longer works. Personal Experience.

That’s One. Single. Aspect. It leaves out the App Store (50,000 apps), movie and music rentals and purchases, a well thought out user interface, an active hacker community…et. al.

Okay, so Apple has decided to use a different business model - rather than come out with new hardware constantly, they’re gradually releasing updates for their hardware but mostly focusing on better software. Great. They seem to be successful.

But they’re doing it so that Person B will buy more Apple products. So they won’t jump ship when their contract ends. So they keep paying their monthly bills, which apple gets a portion of. I’m not faulting them for the business model - it works well. What I’m criticizing is that you said they no longer make money off the iphone and they’re giving out upgrades just to be nice.

[pricciar]

@SenorBeef

Okay, so Apple has decided to use a different business model - rather than come out with new hardware constantly, they’re gradually releasing updates for their hardware but mostly focusing on better software. Great. They seem to be successful.

I don’t know where you are getting this. The original iPhone came out in the summer of 2007. The 3G came out in the summer of 2008 with significant hardware updates. (Most notably the ability to access the 3g network.) Now, a year later there is new hardware that is faster, has a nicer camera and better battery life. They update the OS to come out at the same time as new hardware, but I don’t think they focus any more on software.

I am not disagreeing with you in regards to wanting to make money. I just don’t agree that their business model precludes updating the software. They are treating the phone more like a computer. Which means both hardware upgrades and software each year. Of course, they are out to make money. if not, they would be giving the iTouch users free versions of 3.0.

The software upgrades which improve the phone for existing users and the hardware upgrades to draw new users in actually work in the customer’s favor since they are getting upgrades that other companies didn’t offer nearly as much before Apple came around. Before that upgrades to smartphone OSes depended a lot on what the carrier was willing to let happen. They controlled the timing and the features. Apple is able to avoid that stumbling block. Which, I believe, opened the way for Google and Palm to do the same.

[SenorBeef]

I meant - in comparison to a company like blackberry that seems to come out with a new model every few weeks - their hardware is relatively unchanging. There isn’t a whole line of different Apple phones that you can choose from like there is with other companies - they’re focusing on one design, improving it every year but not doing anything drastic - and they’re focusing more on upgrading the software rather than constantly coming up with new phone models.

[Declan]

@SenorBeef

They’re still making money off the iphone. Lots of it. They’re improving the iphone so that even more people buy the iphone, and that existing iphone customers stay with the iphone and the contract that AT&T gives kickbacks to apple for. Where do you get the idea that they’re no longer making money from the iphone?

They are making money on the hardware but that will slowly start to drop off, now they are introducing the 8 gig 3g for 99 bucks, and the 16 for the intermediate at 199 and now the new one at 299, depending on what ever rebates are available.

At some point , the profit apple is making is going to be software driven only. Through the apps or itunes, it will be around for quite sometime but the iphone is done.

Declan

[SenorBeef]

@Declan

They are making money on the hardware but that will slowly start to drop off, now they are introducing the 8 gig 3g for 99 bucks, and the 16 for the intermediate at 199 and now the new one at 299, depending on what ever rebates are available.

This is only with the signing of a new contract - the cost of the Iphone to AT&T is still higher, but AT&T subsidizes part of the cost in compensation for signing a new contract.