IPOD vs ZUNE

[WillSantini]

I am taking a trip overseas and would like to bring my music with me. On other trips, I’ve taken a cd player with loads of cd’s. I think it’s time to jump into the 21 century and fork over the cash for one of these media players. I was at the mall yesterday and saw the Zune for the first time. I thought “wow, this thing can even play movies!”. When I got home I went to the IPOD site and learned it too can play movies. (is any of this making sense?) IPOD and Zune are same price for the 30GB model.

So I’m here on the SDMB looking for media player advice. Does anyone have experience with either? Although the movie playing capability is nice, I would be using it mainly for music. Can you recommend either as better than the other? How easy / difficult is loading music to either? Are there other media players I should be looking into? I’m looking to buy within the next couple of weeks. Thank you in advance for any advice.

[AHunter3]

As long as you’re looking, a company called Creative has one called the “Zen”; and I seem to recall one named the “Rio”.

Marketshare-wise, there’s the iPod and then there’s everything else picking the crumbs off the floor. Me, I don’t care for iTunes, but my girlfriend wanted an iPod and now has two of them, and they are decently reliable and easy to use. Your music needs to be in either standard .MP3 format or Apple’s own compressed audio format (which is what music from the “Apple Store” comes in). No .WMA files.

The Zune, IIRC, requires music to be in a specific format also. I’ve seen a lot of posts about the hassle of getting compatible music for the Zune, people not being able to use their existing library of audio files, etc, but I don’t recall the details. I know they can play standard .MP3 files though.

[FilmGeek]

I’ve heard lots and lots and lots of bad bad bad things about the Zune.

From Wikipedia (bolding mine):
* Though Zune is a Microsoft product, it is not compatible with players and online music stores using Microsoft’s PlaysForSure technology. This includes music purchased from Microsoft’s recently retired MSN Music store.[29]

* Numerous industry pundits have criticized the Zune for its features and functions (see below) based on a side-by-side comparison with the iPod[30]. Meanwhile, others[31][32][33] have criticized its DRM and the market's potential responses, especially given that it will compete with Microsoft's own early-adopters of the PlaysForSure DRM scheme. Technology reviewer Leo Laporte (of G4techTV (Canada)) said in his November 11, 2006 radio show that Zune may be the "beginning of the end" for DRM as a business tactic.[34]

* While Zune has built-in Wi-Fi capabilities, it can only connect to other Zune devices; it can't wirelessly sync with its host PC, nor can it wirelessly connect to the internet and download new music via a Wi-Fi hotspot.[35][36]

* **Songs wirelessly transferred from one Zune to another can only be played three times. While this is understandable for a protected song for which the recipient has not paid, this limitation is applied even if the song was purchased through the Zune store and the recipient has paid for a Zune Pass.[37] It is also applied even for material that is self-recorded, or copyright-free and unprotected by DRM**. After three days, the song expires regardless of whether or not it has been played. Just playing half the song (or one minute, whichever comes first) counts as one "play." A song cannot be resent to the same device, nor can a song received from someone else be passed on to a third person.[38][39][40][41] In addition, not all songs purchased from the Zune Marketplace can be shared via Wi-Fi with other Zunes (see note 1).

* Unlike many hard drive-based music players, Zune cannot be used as an external hard drive.

* Microsoft provides no way to transfer TV shows recorded using Microsoft's own Windows Media Center digital video recorder software (which is included in Windows Vista and Windows XP Media Center Edition) to the Zune.

* **The Zune device is incompatible with Microsoft's other media player, Windows Media Player.**

* The Zune is not Macintosh-compatible.

In short, get a Creative Zen or an Ipod or a Sandisk Sansa. I don’t particularly like the Ipod (or anything with proprietary non-removeable batteries). My Sansa works great, interfaces with my computer with no problems, holds lots of music (2G is a lot, even if 30 looks neato), is small and runs on cheap AAA batteries.

A quick peruse of the Creative site shows they’ve got LOTS of different options for movie/MP3 players.

[FilmGeek]

Oh, and the Rio Forge I had was a piece of shit. After I got it and it failed, I read some reviews.

They just fail, apparently. I wrote Rio, and they told me they repair them, but it would cost me twice what I paid for the thing.

[Mindfield]

The Zune isn’t going to cut it. If it enjoys any notable success in the marketplace at all, it will be because Microsoft has thrown a boatload of money at it. Although at the outset it looks moderately impressive with its large screen and all, this is really the only thing to recommend it. It is crippled and incompatible in most other ways, even where its ostensibly useful features are hyped.

I jumped on the iPod bandwagon myself. I don’t much care for iTunes to be perfectly honest (there are alternatives of varying usefulness) but at the end of the day, the iPod works exceptionally well. It’s fast, it buffers ahead to make track switching and seeking even faster, it’s simple and easy to navigate, and it’s got a lot of very nice features. It may seem like caving into the majority like a sheep, but the simple fact is, the iPod does what it’s supposed to do and it does it very well with a minimum of fuss. It isn’t perfect, but it’s closer than most others.

[Red_Barchetta]

I hardly think it’s fair to classify the Zune’s wifi functions as negatives when the iPod doesn’t even have any similar capabilities. Wifi > non-wifi, in that specific case.

It’s popular to hate on the Zune by virtue of it
A) Being from Microsoft
B) Not being an iPod - Apple has some of the most devoted fans I’ve seen, which is both fascinating, and disturbing (not that this is the case for any poster’s in this thread…maybe).

I haven’t used either device extensively, but I can offer some anecdotal evidence regarding the iPod. All of my friends who have purchased one have experienced it dying shortly after, most just after the warranty expired. My friend’s repaired unit broke again shorly thereafter! Granted, these same people don’t have Zune’s, so I don’t know if they’re any better in that respect, but if you’re looking for an MP3 player, there are certainly better alternatives to the iPod.

[Little_Bird]

Creative! Creative! Creative Zen V Plus! I just got one and it’s poifect. But if you’re actually looking to watch long vids, you should get a bigger Creative product since the Zen is about the teeniest cutest little thing. But go Creative, man. You aren’t tied into one music provider, it’s less expensive and sooo much cooler.

[Balance]

[QUOTE=Red Barchetta]
I hardly think it’s fair to classify the Zune’s wifi functions as negatives when the iPod doesn’t even have any similar capabilities. Wifi > non-wifi, in that specific case.

It’s popular to hate on the Zune by virtue of it
A) Being from Microsoft
B) Not being an iPod - Apple has some of the most devoted fans I’ve seen, which is both fascinating, and disturbing (not that this is the case for any poster’s in this thread…maybe).
[/QUOTE]

You left out “C) Because it’s a piece of crap”. I’m hardly one of the iPod people, either–I’ve never been an Apple fan, and the iPod obsession some people have creeps me out a bit. I don’t like Apple’s DRM schemes, either, but at least they’re not as incredibly disruptive as Microsoft’s.

With the Zune, MS looks like it’s trying to give Sony lessons on incompatibility. I’m surprised they even bothered to implement actual music playbackon it. After all, they could have made the perfectly reasonable argument that no one would ever successfully navigate the maze of obstructions far enough to actually listen to something.

Me, I listen to music and watch videos on my Nintendo DS Lite.

[Stranger_On_A_Train]

[QUOTE=AHunter3]
Marketshare-wise, there’s the iPod and then there’s everything else picking the crumbs off the floor. Me, I don’t care for iTunes, but my girlfriend wanted an iPod and now has two of them, and they are decently reliable and easy to use. Your music needs to be in either standard .MP3 format or Apple’s own compressed audio format (which is what music from the “Apple Store” comes in). No .WMA files.
[/QUOTE]
The iPod, however, is all hype and, well, rather disappointing to me in terms of the interface. It’s very clean and sterile, but often not as functional as it ought be, especially when you cram 30Gb or more of songs on it.

By the way, AAC (Advanced Audio Coding) is not an Apple, Inc proprietary standard, but rather is specified in MPEG-4 Part 3 encompassing multiple codecs. Today it is generally contained in an .MP4 wrapper (or for Apple’s copy-protected version, .M4A) and there are several portable players that can play MP4 files (though only the iPod can play .M4As from iTunes). There are open source encoders and codecs for MPEG-4 Part 3 format, so you can roll your own from CD or other hard media sources (which is my preference).

[QUOTE=Little Bird]
Creative! Creative! Creative Zen V Plus! I just got one and it’s poifect. But if you’re actually looking to watch long vids, you should get a bigger Creative product since the Zen is about the teeniest cutest little thing. But go Creative, man. You aren’t tied into one music provider, it’s less expensive and sooo much cooler.
[/QUOTE]
I have yet to see a portable media player that really fits the bill for what I want, but Creative Labs comes closer than either Apple or Microsoft, and the Creative Zen Vision:M seems to be close to what you want. I was also going to taut a price difference from the comperable iPod, but looking at Apple’s site it appears that iPod prices have come down dramatically.

I don’t really see the point of watching a movie or video on a PMP–squinting at a tiny screen for entertainment strikes me as, well, less than entertaining–but the Vision:M appears to be comperable if not superior to the iPod. The Zune, frankly, looks like an overpriced doorstop to me. WMA capability is a red herring, in my opinion; the MPEG-based codecs or (if you want to get seriously geeky) third party Ogg-based codec hacks are superior to any proprietary Microsoft standards.

Stranger

[Swallowed_My_Cellphone]

[QUOTE=Red Barchetta]
… but if you’re looking for an MP3 player, there are certainly better alternatives to the iPod.
[/QUOTE]

Yeah, due to the fact that I have/had a PC, a Powerbook running OS 9 I ended up getting an iRiver. For the model I got, they had software for Os 9 and OS X as well as Windows and a plug-in for Windows Media Player (also support OGG and ASF formats). Came with a free arm band too (which was a good selling point fo rme because I wonly wanted it for working out.) Takes an AA battery.

I’ve been plenty happy with it. Never tried it with any online music stores though.

It was much cheaper than an iPod or Zune, so not something that would make me cry if I lost it.

[Dag_Otto]

[QUOTE=WillSantini]

So I’m here on the SDMB looking for media player advice. Does anyone have experience with either? Although the movie playing capability is nice, I would be using it mainly for music. Can you recommend either as better than the other? How easy / difficult is loading music to either? Are there other media players I should be looking into? I’m looking to buy within the next couple of weeks. Thank you in advance for any advice.
[/QUOTE]

I think one thing you need to consider is where you will be getting most of your music from. If you are going to rip songs from CD’s you own, then just about any player should work for you.

Having a portable mp3 player will probably change the way you buy music though. You can continue to : a) buy CD’s and rip them to non-copyright protected mp3 files; b) buy copyright protected (DRM) files from an online store; or c) use a subscription based service. There is probably a d) e)and f) that I’m missing too.

Buying CD’s is fine and if you are happy with that, then buy the player that you like. If you don’t have broadband internet, this is probably the best for you.

Buying individual songs online is great too, but certain stores support certain formats, and not all players/formats are compatible. As far as I know, iTunes sells songs for iPods for 99 cents, everyone else sells songs for the non-iPods for 99 cents or less. For songs I’ve bought this way, I’ve paid between 79 and 89 cents ( I have a Creative Zen Micro). So if you plan on buying songs this way, the player you buy has an impact on the price you pay for music.

Using a subcription service (Yahoo, Napster, Rhapsody, etc) works for some people, and these services only work with certain devices (all non-iPod). For $10-$15 per month, you can download all the music you want. Keep paying the fee, and the music is good. Quit paying and files expire. If you spend a lot of money on music, this can be a good deal, but it is not trouble free. Once you get it set up (some layers require free firmware upgrades) the biggest hassle is having the music expire on you when you are traveling. If you are away from your computer, you can’t renew the tracks. On the other hand, you have a huge amount of music available to you.

I don’t use video, but I’d expect similar issues with formats and sources. Maybe someone else knows more about that.

And there are workarounds to some of the limitations. For instance, you can turn iTunes files into mp3 files if you burn them to a CD and then rip them back to your hard drive. That seems sort of clumsy to me, ok if you have to do it on a rare occasion, tedious if you need to do it often.

Think about how having a player will change how you buy music, and consider that when making a choice.

[rjung]

[QUOTE=AHunter3]
Me, I don’t care for iTunes, but my girlfriend wanted an iPod and now has two of them, and they are decently reliable and easy to use. Your music needs to be in either standard .MP3 format or Apple’s own compressed audio format (which is what music from the “Apple Store” comes in). No .WMA files.
[/quote]

Not quite; iTunes has an option to import unprotected .WMA files and convert them to either .AAC or .MP3, IIRC. The iPod can also play .WAV files, though I don’t think a lot of folks store their digital music in that format, and Apple’s own “Apple Lossless” format.

And to get really nitpicky, note that there are two forms of the .AAC format – there’s Protected AAC, which is used by the iTunes Music Store, and (regular plain ol’ vanilla no prefix adjective) AAC, which is an open standard. The iPod and iTunes support both, natch.

[mks57]

Besides all the other issues, I’d be concerned about the long-term viability of the Zune. From some of the news reports that I’ve read, after the initial surge, its sales have been disappointing.

[scotandrsn]

[QUOTE=mks57]
Besides all the other issues, I’d be concerned about the long-term viability of the Zune. From some of the news reports that I’ve read, after the initial surge, its sales have been disappointing.
[/QUOTE]

I’ve heard that Microsoft told its investors that they are willing to lose money on the Zune for two years just to try and sway significant market share away from the iPod.

[Red_Barchetta]

[QUOTE=scotandrsn]
I’ve heard that Microsoft told its investors that they are willing to lose money on the Zune for two years just to try and sway significant market share away from the iPod.
[/QUOTE]

It’s the same tactic they used for the Xbox - the original was never intended to make money, it was simply to get their foot in the door, and it seems to have worked.

[Mindfield]

Actually, the Creative Zen Vision W looks pretty sweet. Though I already have a 60gb iPod, I think if I were to switch to anything, I’d probably get that one. The lack of a velocity-sensitive touchpad of some sort does kind of present a bit of a downer though – when you have thousands of songs, I can’t imagine scrolling through a huge playlist with only a D-Pad would be a pleasant experience.

[Mr_Jim]

Creative Zen all the way. I’ve had 2 ipods and they don’t even compare to the ease and versatility of the Zen.

[Diceman]

I can highly recommend the Sansa players. I have the 2 gig player and I love it. I also use Napster for my music. I don’t subscribe; I just buy the songs for a dollar a pop, and they’re mine forever. Much better than having to worry about maintaining a subscription, and I don’t buy nearly enough songs to justify spending $10/month anyways.