I could have sworn I saw Cecil question on this, but when I looked it up… nothing. My questions are this:
Can you be “brilliant” and have a lower IQ? When I say lower IQ, I don’t mean below average… just lower average.
If so, can anyone name gifted people who scored lower than most people?
Does anyone know what’s below normal, normal, above normal, gifted…ect.
Thanks
Intelligence is too complex a thing to quantify with a simple number. IQ tests cover several kinds of intelligence so different people may score they same though they might individually score above or below average in spatial relationships, math, etc.
IQ only measures certain specific functions of your brain. It’s a good predictor for some things, but doesn’t necessarily say how “smart” you are (which if course you quickly run into the problem of how exactly do you define “smart” anyway?).
I have heard that Einstein didn’t have all that high of an IQ. In fact, according to this link, it was a little over 160:
http://home8.swipnet.se/~w-80790/Index.htm
My IQ is pretty close to that, and I don’t think too many people would put me in the same league as Einstein.
The link also has the estimated IQs of other famous people, and a chart showing IQ vs. ability (normal, gifted, etc). According to their chart, 125+ is gifted, 135+ is highly gifted, 145+ is genius. The actual chart they have is more detailed.
Quite simply put the answer to your question is yes. It is very easy to be ‘brilliant’ and have a relatively low IQ.
IQ tests very specific kinds of intelligence. If you have a high IQ then you are very intelligent. But if you do not have a high IQ this does not mean that you are NOT intelligent. It could just mean that the kind of intelligence that you have is not tested by an IQ test. In other words: What is ‘IQ’? ‘IQ’ is a measure of how well you score on an IQ test.
When I was doing psychomteriscs they gave us two examples of incredible metntal faculties in people who would score waaay below average on a conventional IQ test: Firstly certain native african goat herders who can tell if how many goat are missing from their herd at a single glance, even if their herd contains dozens of goats.
Secondly the lore keepers of many cultures (Masai, certain old viking clans etc) who had the entire history of their tribe memorised. We are talking about thousands of poems and songs, all available from the lore keeper via instant recall. THis is why the lore keepers were so highly valued as advisors. You tell them your prob and they tell you about a similar episode that happened two hundred years ago and what people did about it last time.
Another good example would be a really good mechanic. The kind of person who can literally take an engine aprt with their eyes closed and put it back together within a few minutes.
Intelligence is a huuuuuge subject. We don’t even have a working definition of what it is so belivieng that something as inaccurate as an IQ test is the be all and end all is just silly.
Hope I have been helpful.
Diff T writes:
> Can you be “brilliant” and have a lower IQ?
What do you mean by the word “brilliant”? Most people take it to mean “having a high IQ”. If that’s what you mean by it, then obviously you can’t be brilliant and have a lower IQ. If that isn’t what you mean by brilliant, you’ll have to explain to us what you mean by the term before we can answer the question. As it stands, your question is like asking, “Can you be gigantic and not be tall?”. If you’re going to use a term in some nonstandard sense, you’re going to have to explain what you mean by it.
All of this is irrelevant to the question of whether IQ exists, or whether it’s a single quantity, or whether it’s possible to measure it. By using the word “brilliant” you’re apparently claiming that IQ exists and is a single quantity and is measurable. If that’s not what you mean, explain what you do mean.
Ok, I suppose I mean “brilliant” as in…
He or she’s a brilliant artist, or a brilliant musician, politician, novel writer, screen writer…
I don’t know how to ask this…
What do I tell a 21 year old man, (my best friend), who surprises me with his intellect and genius moments to the point where I’m not even surprised anymore, who is upset that he’s barely functional in some other areas? I know his IQ is in the normal range, just the lower part.
The way he acts is normal for the most part, but he can be eccentric. He’s the type of guy that give me the BEST love advice, but has been single forever. He tells wonderful stories, but says he sees it played out in his head, and has a hard time getting them out so others can enjoy them. When he talks, he often can’t find the words to describe what he’s thinking. He’s dyslexic and needed special ed Math and English classes. In his last year he took a regular English, and took two classes that weren’t required, Psychology and Sociology (neither of which he could spell on his own gut got in 90’s with each), and for the first half of the year got an overall 94 gpa.(first time he beat me… he always got in 70’s)! He got a 99 in US government… I couldn’t do that, I HATED that class! Then he got very depressed and dropped back down.
He left graduation early because teachers had told his class NOT to get a gown if they had an older brother or sister that had a gown. He didn’t know that they meant an older brother or sister who had gone to THAT school. He was the only one who showed up in black. This is an example that perfectly sums up his life. This type of thing always happens, (not as severe), and people laugh at the kid. He’s always depressed because of this, he has no job, nothing to do, just afraid of the world. He said the one drive he had was believing if people could see inside his head, they would think differently… now he knows his IQ, and he’s just at a huge low. I just wanted to learn more about what IQ scores mean in life.
If anyone has any ideas…?
What is the normal range?
You can tell him that IQ tests were originally designed to identify and categorize children with serious mental handicaps. They are far less accurate and less useful when it comes to categorizing anyone of average or above average intelligence.
This varies from test to test. On the Stanford-Binet, anything from 80 to 120 is considered “normal”.
Oh,
Thanks to all that responded… and I’m sorry if my posts seem a bit rushed.
Diff T writes:
> He left graduation early because teachers had told his class
> NOT to get a gown if they had an older brother or sister that
> had a gown. He didn’t know that they meant an older brother
> or sister who had gone to THAT school. He was the only one
> who showed up in black. This is an example that perfectly sums
> up his life. This type of thing always happens, (not as severe),
> and people laugh at the kid. He’s always depressed because of
> this, he has no job, nothing to do, just afraid of the world. He
> said the one drive he had was believing if people could see
> inside his head, they would think differently… now he knows
> his IQ, and he’s just at a huge low. I just wanted to learn more
> about what IQ scores mean in life.
First of all, your posts are very difficult to understand. I had to read them several times to figure out what you’re talking about. If you want clear answers to your questions, you’re going to have to learn to ask clearer questions. You should edit your posts carefully before you send them out, and perhaps you should read them to someone else before you post them to find out if they can understand what you’re asking.
How was his IQ measured? Was it done by him taking a test with other students in class? Did he take a test from one of these “Measure your own IQ” books? If so, that’s not accurate enough. He should have his IQ individually measured by a psychologist specializing in this. It sounds to me like he has some kind of learning disability. It may be dyslexia, but it may also be ADD (attention deficit disorder).
In any case, if the problem is that he is smart but has problems applying his intelligence, he needs to get professional help. In fact, if you want factual answers to this question, you shouldn’t be relying on us any more than someone who asks medical or legal questions on this board should. On the other hand, if you don’t want specific factual answers, but just general feel-good advice, you should ask this question in the forums IMHO or MPSIMS rather than in General Questions.
Gee whiz, WW, lighten up! 
Your first paragraph’s advice could apply to lots of us and - if we followed it - could take away the spontaneous and free-wheeling nature of the board.
I saw no evidence Diff T was ‘relying’ on us. S/he asked in much the same way as anyone else does here. And then you gave her/him a ‘no-win’ choice – ‘if you want factual answers’, this isn’t the place - but - ‘if you don’t want specific factual answers’, this isn’t the place either. I find THAT a little hard to understand.
I think Wendell Wagner’s point is that it’s difficult to tell what the OP means by “brilliant”, and the elaborations aren’t helping. A “brilliant” artist could be talented or have a good eye, whereas a “brilliant” debater would have a logic mind, be well-rounded and educated, have foresight into someone else’s thoughts. In both cases, although “brilliant” is used to describe the abilities, the word doesn’t mean the same thing. “Brilliant” doesn’t describe anything without a context, and WW’s just trying to figure out what the OP means by it.
I think what the OP means is that the friend in question has sparse “book knowledge” and can be naive and (for lack of a better word) stupid at times, but he has moments of fantastic insight and wisdom and knowledge of particular topics. And I think the OP wants to know how someone can be apparently smart and stupid at the same time.
Diff T, my impression is not that your friend has a low IQ. If anything, he might be unmotivated, easily discouraged, and unworldly. He might have poor social skills. Depression is possible. But even if I’m totally wrong, there’s nothing that says a low IQ score = an uncreative mind or lacking in insight.
Here’s my 2 cents, and all I can offer ad credentials is a recently obtained Bachelor’s Degree in psychology from an accredited university.
Take an IQ test? Whatever number you get…throw it out, it ain’t worth too much. I see people getting real hung up over these numbers and to tell you the truth I don’t think they mean too much. Having a higher IQ doesn’t really mean “I’m smarter that you are” or vice versa. True it’s supposed to be a measure of intellectual capability, but it’s only a predictor. Most people, given the choice, would prefer an “average” industrious person to a lazy genius any day. The number doesn’t matter so much as what you do with yourself. If you have a great idea and don’t do anything with it, it doesn’t matter how smart you are. On the other hand, if you do some work with it, you can develop it into something real and your idea will be all the more briliant. If Einstein had thought up the theory of relativity, but instead of thinking it through and elaborating on it had gone back to approving patents or doodling in his notebook, would anyone have cared what his IQ was?
Now, as for the tests themselves, the usual IQ test assumes “average” as a score of 100, meaning that 50% of the population shouls score above that and 50% below that mark. The standard deviation is 15, so two-thirds of all people will have an IQ score of between 85 and 115. 95% will score between 70 and 130. A full 97.5% will score somewhere between 55 and 145. Any score higher than 160 is immediately suspect as there are too few scores in that range to compare it to. So if you se so-and-so reported to have an IQ of 180, that person probably is pretty sharp, but it’s kind of a guess as to just what degree.
Any do-it-yourself IQ test, especially ones online are worthless. Don’t bother. You need the sit-down ones like the Stanford-Binet or the Wechsler where someone else reads you questions and you answer them. That one takes an hour or more to run through. But remember the number doesn’t mean as much as you think. Its mainly about what you do with what you’ve got.
mackeff writes:
> Your first paragraph’s advice could apply to lots of us and - if
> we followed it - could take away the spontaneous and free-
> wheeling nature of the board.
You think of it as “spontaneous and free-wheeling;” I think of it as confused and difficult to understand. I still can’t understand what she’s asking. If she’s asking a question about how IQ works in general, we may be able to answer it in General Questions, but in that case she’s got to make it clearer what she’s asking. If she wants general feel-good advice about how she can deal with her friend who seems to be intelligent but has trouble applying his intelligence, she should ask the question in IMHO or in MPSIMS.
If she thinks that her friend has some problem with applying his intelligence and that we can give technical advice to him, she’s mistaken. It’s the same way with people who ask for help with their medical and legal problems. We can answer general questions about medical and legal issues, but it would be foolish for anyone to take that as a substitute for going to a doctor or a lawyer. In so far as I can understand what she’s saying, her friend may have a learning disability. It sounds a little like ADD to me. Then again, he may just not be as intelligent as she thinks he is. Either way, if he wants an accurate assessment of his problems, he should go to a psychologist specializing in measuring IQ and in assessing learning disabilities.
General Questions is for questions with factual answers. IMHO is for opinions and polls. MPSIMS is for Mundane Pointless Stuff I Must Share.
Is there a General Question here? Are you trying to take a poll? Or are you just sharing?
DrMatrix - General Questions Moderator