Iran declines invitation to call Trump about Trump's concerns: Trump the statesman, part 2?

I think I see part of the problem here:

Who the fuck do they think they’re fooling?

:smack:

Oh, right: I live in America.

…which is exactly what I said in post #236. No, Iran is not going to just trust the US when a Democrat gets elected, and he’s right: neither will North Korea or anyone else. The world has come to understand what it means when Americans elect Republicans: regime change and neo-imperialism or neo-hegemony. The world will simply get out the stopwatch and wait until we idiotically vote for another Republican president. I don’t live outside the US, but I would imagine that, frankly, this shit gets old. And this is how America loses its alliances, and its edge, forever.

Iran calls new US sanctions ‘outrageous and idiotic’.

This backs up my perception of Iran’s position:

Here’s the really, really stupid part:

“Your methods are failing. You are accomplishing the opposite of your stated goals with your preferred methods. Stop before people get killed.” The US is saying this to Iran but the world is saying the same thing to the US. If the US expects Iran to listen to their demands, why shouldn’t the world think the US should listen to the world’s demands? And why should anyone listen to the US, since we can’t be trusted to keep our word?

Good job, Team Trump! You’ve backed us into a corner; now start digging that hole!

Oh! They’re digging!

Translation: “They aren’t doing what we want them to do. Even tho we keep hitting them, they aren’t doing what we want them to. Why do they keep making us hit them???”

Well, he’s wrong about the second one. The last thing Netanyahu wants is an actual war with Iran, for obvious reasons.

Would he welcome a US war with Iran?

God no. What if the U.S. wins? How can he keep getting re-elected if he can’t act tough on Iran? Bibi Netanyahu has never met a status quo he didn’t want to maintain. It’s in his nature.

Besides, the Iranians already have over 130,000 rockets positioned in Lebanon and Syria, all aimed at Israel. If the U.S. attacks, they won’t hesitate to give the order to launch.

Israeli Haaretz newspaper:

Haaretz again:

Senior Russian official says:

  • Iran is still an ally and partner of Russia

“Iran has always been and remains our ally and partner, with which we are consistently developing relations both on bilateral basis and within multilateral formats.”

  • Iran is not the major threat to regional security

“This is why we believe that it is inadmissible to describe Iran as the major threat to the regional security and, moreover, to put it on par with the Islamic State or any other terrorist organization.”

  • U.S. drone was in Iranian airspace

[He has] “information from the Russian Defense Ministry that this drone was in Iranian airspace.”

I have trouble keeping track: Are we believing what Russia says this week or not?

You’ll need to check with Trump’s twitter feed. Even his own cabinet cannot answer your question without doing that first.

Ironically, the President of the United States publicly told the world that he believed the Russian President when he said that Russia didn’t interfere in the U.S. election, despite in that case there being actual real evidence that they did:

I don’t have great faith in Putin/Russia’s ability to speak truth, but when Trump and his Administration repeatedly lie about everything - lie probably more than any elected leader/government in the history of democracy - then one cannot have much faith in what the U.S. say either. It’s basically Trump-led U.S.'s word against Iran and Russia’s word. I don’t trust any of these parties, so I’m still open-minded about where the drone was shot down, until someone produces some actual verifiable evidence.

Heh. Haaretz’s relationship with Bibi is oddly similar to Bibi’s relationship with Iran; let’s just say that if Netanyahu had actually started the number of wars Haaretz has said he wanted to start over the years, we’d all be dead three times over. But hey, selling newspapers is rough in today’s market.

That said, they got one thing right: whatever happens, people will blame Israel.

Why is it “oddly” similar? That sounds like you’re implying that the Haaretz newspaper might be in cahoots with Iran. Could Haaretz’ criticism of Netanyahu be because Haaretz is a left-leaning newspaper and Netanyahu is pretty far to the right on the political spectrum, and they therefore have different outlooks on the world?

Reuters, February 2019:

No, no, you’re missing my analogy - just like Netanyahu needs Iran to be a threat to get re-elected, Haaretz needs Netanyahu to be a warmongering maniac in order to justify its own existence. However, while I agree with them that Bibi is essentially a piece of shit (hence his recent alliance with the far right), I also happen believe that he is a blowhard, a milquetoast and an empty suit, who talks tough but is incapable of following through. He may very well cause a war to start through neglect and procrastination, but he will never start one intentionally. For better or for worse, he just doesn’t have it in him.

In fact, I would not be surprised if Netanyahu was one of the people who talked Trump down from attacking Iran. That would be just his style: loudly threatening Iran one moment, quietly dialing back the conflict the next.

Here’s a neat little couple of paragraphs that introduced Thomas Friedman’s latest piece in the NY Times:

As the title of Friedman’s piece asks: What’s to Worry About?

Let me answer Friedman’s title with the title of this thread: Trump the Statesman?

Wait…is this guy claiming Trump HAS ‘foreign policy objectives’?? :stuck_out_tongue: Yeah, it actually is worse, as he is also simultaneously taking on Mexico, Europe, Canada and just about everyone else at one level or another. Really, the China part is necessary, but he is so disjointed and ill-coordinated that it’s tough to even understand what goals he has, or if he has any at all. Is the point to bring those good, high wage low skill jobs back to the US? Is it to stop China from intellectual property theft? WTO violations? Is it a fight about national security concerns or is it 5G competition and the fact that the first country to bring 5G to the market will have a huge advantage? Or is it about Trump’s huge hands? I honestly have no idea and I seriously doubt he does either. He certainly hasn’t gone about this in a coherent way, lining up our allies and support for a US push on this, strengthening ties in the region and offering the US as an alternative to China. Just the opposite, in fact…he’s pushed away allies and pissed off potential regional partners at the same time he’s ramped up his trade war. It’s…well, it’s insane. The folks who think this dude is playing 3D chess are just delusional, IMHO.

Myself, while I have almost zero sympathy for Iran, especially the Iranian fundamentalist totalitarian government, they should just play for time IMHO. Eventually, Trump will be gone one way or another, and presumably a more sane and coherent government will be in place. China should do the same thing. Sadly, while I think China needs to be confronted, my WAG is that once Trump is out the follow on government will simply hit the reset button and take us back to status quo ante-Trump.

The effort to build a coalition to wage war on Iran has not been met with enthusiasm by our NATO allies.

Behold, INSTEX!

Now let’s see how the US responds eh.

AP story here.

And they aren’t just meandering along here:

Russia is, of course, using the opportunity to loudly point their finger at the US cause of the situation (and yes, it helps them that they are correct) AND be the voice of reason; it’s shameful that an American president has handed these PR opportunities to our adversaries.