Yes, i apologise humbly for the ‘so called’" dubious source", but i cannot find anything in mainstream media that hits so hard, probes so deep.
You decide right or wrong.
explain it to me plz…
its satire dear sir, of a sorts, but deadly serious… nonetheless.
of things long gone, yet to come.? perhaps.
The Kingdom is a parody of Saudi Arabia, how they call their righteous all powerful.
The Kingdom.
compared to say, Iraq, Iran, Korea, etc etc, ppl we destroy righteously, Iran, Pakistan, etc etc, who we yet want to subdue.
The original Keys of the Kingdom, Lost, goes back to many things, the main source as referenced, Billie Jean, Rubie Jean is Bahia.
for me its Scripture… in origin.
Something to aspire to? or deride??
I lean toward the second one because I’m still totally in the dark as to your meaning. The U.S. is still not going to invade Pakistan or Iran. I’ve been saying this for at least three years, and it’s no more plausible now than it was years ago. I still find it surprising that anyone thinks things are moving in that direction.
kind of figured you might, its why i intentionally made the reference to the Bahia ‘lyrics’ somewhat obtuse, intentionally obscure, figured you would either know and understand, then i would not have to explain further.
or you would not,
Honestly, either course is fine with me.
as to the other matter.
there are numerous reports daily about cruise missile attacks into Pakistan, the possibility of a ground invasion has been raised.
also.
Hillary Clinton and Israel hierarchy scream near constantly about what a threat Iran is…
many x many sources…
Anyway, the thread as i started it was mainly about Iran’s president, how calm and rational, and intelligent, he appears, extremely so, UNLIKE ex Pres Bush…
what a contrast…
I got quite a few of them right, but the NPA questions were stilted bullshit. And about this answer:
"6. 25,000. It is one of the many paradoxes of the Islamic Republic of Iran that this anti-Israeli country supports by far the largest Jewish population of any Muslim country. After the 1979 Islamic revolution, thousands of Jews left for Israel, Western Europe or the U.S., fearing persecution. But Ayatollah Khomeini, Iran’s first post-revolutionary supreme leader, issued a fatwa, upon his return from exile in Paris, decreeing that the Jews and other religious minorities were to be protected, thus reducing the outflow of Iran’s Jews to a trickle. ( IRAN: Life of Jews Living in Iran ) "
Oh yeah? Iranian Baha’is go to jail for teaching literacy programs, or just because the authorities feel like it.
She’s not screaming. Criticizing another government for “attempting to evade scrutiny,” as she does in the video, is light years away from screaming.
Pssst… Bush is gone. Like I said earlier: Ahmadinejad is cagey but he’s never struck me as particularly intelligent, and some of his beliefs are nuts. You can’t intelligently deny the Holocaust or say things like ‘there are no gays in our country.’ They’re transparently stupid and false, and the Holocaust stuff is batshit.
there is lots of info about how thro centuries the Persians defended the Jews, Christians too.
about the Bahia persecution in Iran?
yes, I am well aware of this, strange is it no, that in the country where they began, they should be so persecuted, or perhaps its simply why…
Basic Hard right Fundamentalist extremism, just like Christianities… intolerance of anyone different…
So, your point?
Want to discuss how the West encourages extremism?
when it suits us, no matter the inevitable consequences, when reality and Kasrma turns round and attacks us, bites us, hard?
say for example, how we encouraged the most radical ppl of Afghanistan to fight Russians for US, in Afghanistan? armed, equipped them
created
Bin Larden for example?
anywhere else for that matter?
all thro South America perhaps? for many decades.?
You name it, the list is long…
where ever did i mention Obamba,? not once …
Heck the whole world is still reeling and dead from the Bush era, the Neo Con fanatics who delivered death and destruction,
for the ( our ) common good of course…
Yes, Iran, concerns me, I see them as persecuted, hounded, just like as Iraq was, trade sanctioned, starved, like Korea, like Japan, Germany. pre WW2
etc etc etc.
Yet we insist we are good, they are all evil.
hey its 11am here, just worked an all night shift, gotta sleep.
later
In the thread title. And he’s mentioned in the first sentence of the article you quoted in your first post. And you mentioned the U.S. (and things that are being done by Obama’s administration) several times.
That’s some spectacularly ignorant stuff you’re spouting there. Germany was persecuted and hounded prior to World War II? Imperial Japan was persecuted? I think you need to crack open some history books in a hurry.
ahh yes, funny how i had mentally dismissed Obamba as not central to the debate of how we persecute Iran.
Probably because our persecution of Iran goes back decades, and Obama is the new kid on the block.
and the news source OP mentioned Obamba.
he was included as somehow important…
As yet, his input uncertain, appears to be just another war monger, time will tell.
What i want to understand is just why?
No actually, not prior to WW2, think it began long before, pre WW!.
called trade sanctions,perhaps,
ring any bells.?
its what we do best.
1st annex them, then
Starve them, institute regime change, to suit us, if that fails, or in spite of it, then bomb and invade, occupy.
You think i am making this up?
can dismiss all this by calling it ignorant?
good luck.
Guess it depend on who you happen to be, one of ‘them’ or one of 'us? huh?
Only the Victor records and writes History, all else is forgotten?
Don’t care about through the centuries. Baha’is are not allowed to go to university in Iran, NOW. They are not allowed to speak openly about being Baha’is.
I can tell English isn’t your first language, so I’m going to ask you to clarify what you mean by this. Are you saying Baha’is deserve the persecution they receive in Iran for some reason?
My point is that before you criticize others or try to make your side look good, you should clean out your closet… (i.e., human rights)
No, because I already know about it, and I am not a fan of this government, since the country’s inception.
He’s not mongering for any wars. He did exactly what you would want a diplomat to do: use diplomacy.
Why is there antipathy between Iran and the U.S.? Like other posters have said, it goes back to U.S. support for the Shah and then got much worse with the hostage crisis. The Iraq war inflamed things more recently but the U.S. and Iran haven’t had formal diplomatic relations for 30 years.
Sanctions are what we do best? I wish! If you’re unable to tell the difference between sanctions and acts of war, you really don’t have the perspective to give an informed opinion on this issue. There’s a valid case to be made that the sanctions placed on Germany after World War I (not before - Germany hadn’t existed for very long) were too burdensome and created some of the conditions that led to World War II. Then again if the demilitarization sanctions had been enforced there might not have been a war in the first place.
I think you’re so far off base that you might as well be making it up. This does not describe pre-WWII Germany or Japan at all. It doesn’t describe Iran or Iraq or Korea either. For starters I don’t think you know what “annex” means. It means “to add.” For example, Hitler annexed the Sudetenland prior to World War II. The U.S. never annexed Germany or Japan. It did not institute regime change in Germany or Japan until after WWII, and if you’re going to argue that was the wrong thing to do, I can only wish you good luck. The sequence of events you’re describing is not possible in the order you are giving them. Annex means to occupy, so it shouldn’t be on there twice. The U.S. instituted regime change in Iran in the 1950s, which was the wrong thing to do. It did not annex Iran. It was also involved in the government of Vietnam, stupidly. But it did not annex Vietnam. Iran has not been starved.
If you’re completely wrong and uninformed, then yes, I think I can dismiss your argument. And most of what you’re saying is absolutely wrong, and where you are correct, it doesn’t apply to Iran today.
It doesn’t matter who writes the history if you don’t bother reading it.
Aww, C’mon now, diplomacy?
you kidding right, He has escalated a morally corrupt war/ ( Afghanistan ) beyond acceptable limits.
Getting ready for the next one, Iran or more likely Pakistan, or so it seems.
Too many of their civilians have died already, when will enough be enough?
I wish the ppl would understand, bombing Vietnam, Cambodia and Thailand with Napalm etc etc etc, did not work,
Why would anyone think the Wests policy of invasion of foreign countries could work now?
all we do is kill them, cause them to hate us, provoke revenge.
What i want to understand is just why?
This much is blatantly obvious…
what i actually asked was why you would think what the West ( America ) did, creating Bin Larden, the most radical Muhadajeen, training arming, equipping, to take Russia down for you in Afghanistan,
or creating saddam to take care of the Russian interest and access to Iraqis oil,
or the Wests 'intervention all thro Sth America was justified or excusable.?
If you answer yes, I seriously give up, totally
Somehow you neglected to address these issues…
why?
What i actually said was, that’s its, the rightness and wrongness, is in the point of perspective.
If you were them, or at least could imagine yourself as them, you might see it differently.
I think your main error is that you see it all subjectively, how you need to justify and excuse the horrors the West has committed on this planet so far against ‘other peoples’
as if this can make it seem what happened, ‘kosher’ ( sic ) acceptable…
I choose to see it all objectively.
One Planet, One PPL, its policy of greed and conquest not only as dictated by The West…
By force of GUNS and War…
Kapeche?
to the rest of it, later
one quick reference to Germany, I think including the History of how we create wars back then an aside to how we demonise the leaders we choose to hate,
now, a mere reflection and repeat, of the same mistakes we are making today.
They all evil, only us good…
Which is lame,
Speaking of Germany
What I saw was hundreds and thousands of Germans in total applause of Hitler in the early stages.
He promised,‘final solution’ was their hero, unless you are suggesting they all clapped and cheered at gunpoint???
Sure. fair comment, but i am old bloke, these new fangled computers do dads? yikes.
no comprehende.
i did try however.
sorry if i failed.
ahh well.
can you plz piece together the shrards of a debate anyhows?
No, I’m not. When this thread started many moons ago, we were discussing Iran. So far, the disagreements between the U.S. and Iran over the nuclear program have been handled through diplomacy, and like I said, if you can’t tell the difference between Bush’s approach and Obama’s on the subject, you need to brush up on some very recent history. Obama dealt with other countries and pushed for sanctions. He got some agreement on that. And the other day Iran responded by saying they’ll send some of their uranium for processing in Turkey. It doesn’t settle the whole issue but it defused it in part. Talks on sanctions are going on and there may now be an agreement between the UN Security Council countries.
I don’t know what the best outcome for Afghanistan is. Leaving wouldn’t work very well for most of the people there either. It was a mess long before he arrived.
I can’t say this any more strongly: you are totally wrong about this in every way. If he’s getting ready for a war, where are the negotiations with allies? Where is he getting the soldiers from with so many other military commitments? Why isn’t anyone from the government arguing that they need to go to war?
The runup to the Iraq War looked nothing like this in any way. For months ahead of time it was obvious to most of us that Bush was determined to go to war. That’s not happening with Iran or Pakistan right now. The military capability isn’t there, the determination isn’t there, and there have been no moves in that direction. All that’s happened is that Obama’s administration has said it does not want Iran to have nuclear weapons. In reality they probably can’t do anything about it. And they have said they want more cooperation from Pakistan on fighting terrorism, which is pretty far from threatening to invade.
Vietnam and Cambodia were mass murder, but they were also 30-plus years ago and don’t have anything to do with what you claim you wanted to talk about. Both Western and Eastern countries have had plenty of wars; pretending this is something about the West is ridiculous.
Uh, when did Vietnamese and Cambodian and Thai terrorists attack the U.S.?
You’re not going to find one motivation for all wars. As it is you’re mangling history with regard to Iran, Pakistan, Iraq, Germany and Japan. A little focus would really help.
No, I don’t think it was justified or excusable. (Saying the U.S. creating Bin Laden, however, is incorrect. Supported, yes.) It was foolish and short sighted and done without regard to the longer-term consequences. I’ve been saying that for years.
BECAUSE THEY DON’T HAVE ANYTHING TO DO WITH IRAN, WHICH WAS THE ORIGINAL SUBJECT. Every time I try to address Iran, you start talking about a different country and a different war. You then get a bunch of facts wrong, so I have to explain some of those and explain why they’re not related to Iran. Rinse and repeat.
Thank you for that obvious insight. Unfortunately it doesn’t tell us anything about the wars and political situations we were talking about.
I’ve never felt any need to justify those things. Vietnam was totally wrong and bordered on genocide; it was an unnecessary war built on a disregard for human life. Getting involved with the mujahedeen in Afghanistan was stupid and has caused enormous problems. Meddling in Iran was completely idiotic and it’s still causing problems 50 years later.
No one can see everything objectively.
I hate to break this to you, but the West did not invent greed, guns, or war. People were killing and trying to rob and dominate each other long before the world was organized into its current political and economic structure.
You’re showing off a tendency to understand things only in the broadest generalities, so you either don’t know the details or don’t think they’re important. They are important. Nazi Germany and modern day Iran are both internationally unpopular (or “demonized,” to use your loaded word of choice). I don’t think it’s useful to talk in terms of evil, but was Nazi Germany all evil? Pretty much, yes. Is Iran evil? Let’s say it’s not a government most of us would want to live under, and based on recent history there are some big reasons not to want them to have nuclear weapons, which appears to be where they are going. Does that justify a war? Not on its own, but we’re nowhere near a war.
I didn’t suggest anything like that. A lot of Germans cheered Hitler when he promised to restore Germany’s prosperity and glory, yes. In so doing he killed tens of millions, led millions of others to their deaths, and in the end he thoroughly destroyed the country. You can do plenty of damage without holding people at gunpoint, and you can be crazy without shouting and yelling - although Hitler preferred the shouting and yelling option.
Just a correction: Thailand was never bombed with anything. In fact, Thailand was an ally in the Vietnam War, with troops sent to fight on the American side. Many US air bases were in Thailand too, with daily missions against Indochina flown out of them. It was quite a comfortable posting as long as you didn’t get shot down over Indochina: Take off, bomb, return for cocktail hour and a strumpet or two.
It is so refreshing to see someone actually go to the bother of asking ‘why’.
What we need is more people like you to help us save this planet.
Iran in this region is seen to be strong and sticking up for injustice. That is by the people, not the despotic, undemocratic government puppets supported by US dollars.
Iran is not threat to anyone, but make no mistake they will defend if attacked. I do not believe at all all the hype about nuclear weapons. It’s the same old WMD story rolling out.
Iran is a moderate Islamic republic which would be totally against and as far as I can see using nuclear weapons. It is just SO against their religion. Do not mistake them for the Taliban or Al Qaeda. Do you know that in Islam you have the right to defence BUT!!! not to harm civilians, women, children and elderly. If you do it is straight to hell.
Now just because some crazies do that doesn’t mean they all do or think that way. I live in a Muslim country and believe me killing with nuclear or even having it on your soil is totally against God.
It is against humanity.
As for Iran.
There is more respect for it’s leader in standing up to the US bully boys, than for their own leaders. I am talking about the people here.
Iran is being targeted for one reason only.
Because it is not a coward.
I looked at the quiz and answered about 99% right. It’s a shame that the West swallow so much misinformation about Iran, but good to see you not falling for it any longer.
Are we talking about the same Iran that picks which candidates for political office can even run based on their acceptability by the Ayatollah, violently attacks peaceful protesters who are demonstrating against rigged elections, and ultimately shows the pointlessness of elections in the first place since the Ayatollah has the ultimate say over everything? In comparison, Iraq is a much more ideal representative democracy than Iran.
Then why are they enriching uranium to levels far beyond what are needed to peaceful nuclear power? Why are they stonewalling and prevaricating with IAEA officials and lying about the existence of secret nuclear research/development sites that are built underground or inside mountains? Why would they need to build nuclear research/development sites inside mountains (and lie about their existence) if it was only for peaceful purposes?
