I wish more people on both sides of the asle would say things like this. One of the major problems I see America facing these days is that people, and there are a shitload of them, are putting their parties ahead of their country. Reading the Limbaugh quote makes me want to throw up. That some asshole would have our country continue to dump billions into Iraq whilst drawing the ire of the world along the way, just so he wouldn’t have to admit he was wrong makes me tremble with rage. Furthermore, that people on the right wouldn’t call Rush out on such an asinine comment depresses me beyond belief. (I’m also mad at the left for not calling out when Franken or some fool shoots his mouth off)
Airman we’ve had our problems, but your post above says alot about what type of person you are. I’ll join you in saying I have no fucking idea how to fix things.
A wonderful post there my friend. Articulate. Gracious. Magnanimous. Would that it were that we saw more of those sort of sentiments on the world stage.
I don’t know if you recognise me Airman Doors. Perhaps you do, perhaps not. Certainly, one thing’s for sure… I’ve been following these SDMB threads about the war in Iraq v3.0 since before it was defined as “impending” and then onwards till it’s metamorphosis into “Mission Accomplished”. In that time, I’ve seen various people try to be objective and informed, and I’ve seen others try to turn it into one pathetic partisan spatfest.
Sadly, posts such as yours above are the rarest. That is, where somebody has changed their view, and further, has had the class to admit that their previous position was diametricaly different. Kudos to you sir.
Originally posted by Rush Limbaugh (R - Drug Addict)
"By abandoning, either emotionally or psychologically or even intellectually, the current policy and the effort, you are handing the left a huge victory and big ticket, and I think it matters. "
Party before country. It has become the mantra of the right-wing zeolots.
The heart of the problem – which you describe so well – has been there since the beginning, waiting to be addressed. All of the tough talk in the world, all of the glittering generalities and attempts to blur the issues come down to what may be irresistible force vs immovable object.
We are approaching one finish line in Iraq, but can’t seem to cross it because first we must cross half the distance to the finish line. Another Monday passes with no Constitution.
As for waiting decades for a resolution to this?..nuh-uh. Our own country would be in shambles.
danceswithcats is right about one thing for sure. We have to focus on the present and what is to come. I learned my lesson after voting for LBJ and signing a petition in support of the war in Vietnam. Presidents can and do lie for their own self-interests. Partisanship can make anyone blind. Try to find reliable sources on both sides of an issue and keep yourself informed. When you have been mistaken, don’t harp at the people who’ve been right, join them. Don’t wait for your elected officials to ask your opinion. Make it known.
ETF, looks like we’d better practice our calf-roping before Airman Doors tries to make a getaway. Dammit. Mr. Doors, you know how I feel.
Respect where respect is due. And you have earned mine, Airman.
As per your despair in the hopes of ‘fixing things’ you only need take a look at yourself – perhaps you could start by making available whatever means got you to reconsider your original stand to anyone/everyone you’re able to reach. Don’t sell yourself short. If your postings here are any indication of your RL persona, you’re a straighshooter, and that combined with the power and knowledge of your newfound convictions, make for some very potent yet, at the same time, appealing weapons. Use them and use them often.
Hopelesness is simply defeat by a different name. And your country and your people are much too proud and brave to give in to the unscrupulous and poisonous wishes of a few.
Won’t be easy – quite the contrary – but in the end I’m convinced America will get back on the right track. The alternative is simply too depressing and downright dreadful to even contemplate.
Airman Doors, as a former Junior Birdman myself, I can certainly understand your need to not let your compatriots down when times are tough, and I am certain that they would want to do the same if you were over there and they were home.
That’s the problem, though. At what point do you finally tell your fellow Universal Soldiers that, as much as you love and honor them, this vicious merry-go-round of duty is going nowhere fast and you are jumping off?
How many soldiers and civilians were lost or injured over the last couple of years to establish what is turning out to be an extremely unstable Muslim theocracy that has actually set back the cause of Women’s Rights a couple decades?
I don’t want you to go back to help them out-I want them to come home. As long as this sense of obligation-without-reason is fostered in our society, though, I fear that this will continue.
One of the reasons Vietnam was a quagmire was that too many people clung for far too long to hopelessly invalid characterisations of what was going on there. You still do.
The same thing is happening in relation to Iraq. Which is of itself a parallel between the two.
Czarcasm, I made a comment similar to yours not a few days ago in this thread. If you’ll allow me, I’d just like to quote a small portion of it as I find it relevant to your own:
IOW, pretty much what I told Airman stands: it’s in your collective hands to put an end to the Bushit. Organize, protest, inform, etc. Create a politically unsustainable position for those that wish for more of the same. I really see no other way.
BTW, best of luck and a safe (hopefully speedy as well) return to your brothers from Iraq.
I honestly think your sentiments are noble. I’m not questioning your integrity in this matter.
I’d like to suggest you’ve been trained to feel this way. I’m not saying that’s at all a bad thing, from a military standpoint, but from a civilian standpoint, you have precisely zero to feel guilty about. My understanding of the workings of the military (having a father who was drafted during wartime, and some cousins who serve or have served in the armed forces) leads me to conclude you are where you are fully at the discretion of your superiors, whatever input you may have had in deciding your current status. Taking undue responsibility for your situation at this juncture is not rational, and is potentially damaging to your psyche.
I would also submit that, IMO, your Commander In Chief has done you and your comrades a grave disservice. If friends of yours are in harm’s way, they are victims of forces far beyond your control or theirs. Yes, they willingly volunteered to serve and taking orders is the job of the soldier. Just consider who is giving the orders and why before you volunteer to actively put yourself in harm’s way too, out of a misguided sense of personal responsibility. Discretion really is the better part of valor.
Sorry, minor hijack here, but could we please stop doing this? I detest Rush Limbaugh, disagree with nearly everything he says, and probably side with you on the vast majority of the political issues of the day.
Just because we might disagree with him (or even consider him a bad person (I don’t know all that much about him)) doesn’t absolve us from the responsibility to take the high road here. I feel that this sort of habit is doing no good to anyone, anywhere, and might well be hurting us (as in Liberals/Democrats/etc).
Re: Constantly mentioning Limbaugh had a drug problem.
Hey, I have nothing against letting people know what a hypocrite that windbag is. But man, if everytime someone types “Limbaugh” they follow it up with “drug addict”, it becomes like that poster on the wall no one pays attention to anymore because they see it day in/day out. Save the “drug addict” comments for choice moments when it actually may have something to do with the conversation and it will have more power.
I have been trained this way, but it wasn’t by the military. I have never left friends to fend for themselves. I’ve also lost five friends (genuine friends, not just acquaintances) in this war, and I for the sake of my own self I can give no less than they did and let the chips fall where they may. That’s all I can do to honor them.
That’s irrelevant. Somebody has to go. Would you prefer it was somebody who doesn’t want to be there and is bitter and vindictive like the people at Abu Ghraib, or someone like me who goes reluctantly but with a purpose?
I don’t want to die, and I don’t want to kill. I want to help those people, if only so I (or the Iraqis) don’t lose any more friends.
Yes it is what they were. What would you call someone who gassed his own people, engaged in torture such as beheadings and rapings of his own people, and who funded suicide bomber attacks agains Israel? That person is a terrorist, regardless of what you think. And while there is no clear link between Hussein and Bin Laden (no pictures of them holding hands and skipping through the sands of Iraq) there has been evidence that Iraqi officials met with al-Qaeda members.
Even if Hussein and his regime don’t fit your definition of terrorist, they fit my (and Bush’s) definition of terrorist, that being “If you are a terrorist, or if you support terrorists, you are a target for the war on terror.”