Iraq, Pat, Katrina: turning in my RRR card.

The BBQ Pit
1

This is long, and I’ll probably regret posting it, but here goes…

This week pushed me over the edge. I’m officially turning in my card as a (former) member of the religious-right Republicans.

I dislike politics, and as I’ve lived outside of the country for a number of year, I probably shouldn’t comment, but the past few years have been quite interesting (remember that “ancient Chinese curse.”) We had Clinton’s impeachment, the 2000 election, 9/11, two wars, and now hurricane Katrina. No one can say the times haven’t been interesting.

I didn’t like Clinton, but I didn’t hate him; I’m a Christian, and we’re not supposed to go around hating people. I also acknowledge many of the good things he did. I supported Bush over Gore. I felt relieved (and also conflicted, as personally/ethically I am a pacifist) at the response to Afghanistan after 9/11.

I was neutral towards the Iraq war. While most everyone around me condemned it, I thought, “Let’s wait and see. Let’s let history judge this one. When they get all those weapons of mass destruction, maybe everyone will acknowledge this was the right thing to do.” After all, what do we know? We should trust the president. I did say at the time, however, that if Bush was wrong about this, his whole government should resign…

<turning point>

For a long time, I’ve been embarrassed to have to admit the liberals were right. O.k., here it goes: Liberals, you were right. The war was a disaster, a foolish idea, a monumental, tragic waste of life. There were no WMD’s. Bush done wrong. Bush lied. People died. Our trust was violated. This should probably be stated more strongly, but there it is.

(Oh, by the way, Mr. Bush, Mr. Rumsfeld, thank you for Abu Gharib and Guantanamo <sp>. This war was supposedly to make Americans “at home and abroad” more secure. No, by these monumental violations of human rights, you’ve put me in more danger. I’m in the middle of nowhere, and yet there have been threats against Americans here. I’m now afraid to go into Muslim shops/neighborhoods/countries, where I wasn’t afraid before. This isn’t going to change in my lifetime; they have long memories, much longer than your election cycles. Thanks a lot.)

A couple weeks ago, the Pat Robertson fiasco hit the news. Yes, this was in the overseas news for days. I felt sick. I’ve met Dr. Robertson several times, though I’m sure he wouldn’t remember me. I know many people that work for CBN; most are very kind, good people that do a lot of good work. Pat, what were you thinking? I know you’ve read the New Testament; did you forget what it says? You are supposed to pray for your enemies, not try to arrange hits on them. Do you know how bad this made Christians look? Do you know how hard things like this make it for those who are trying to serve others in the name of Christ? People never remember the good things we do, only idiocies like this. This more than anything makes me feel I should distance myself from the Religious Right™.

The final blow was the hurricane relief, or lack thereof. This is inexcusable. Others have gone on about this ad nauseum (and we should be nauseous), so I won’t elaborate. There’s plenty of blame, and shame, to go around, but eventually the buck must stop.

Oh, by the way, please stop referring to New Orleans as a “third world country.” I live in a third world country, one that was hit by the Tsunami. It wasn’t the same. Not having tons of gun shops lying around for people to loot does make a difference. You cannot believe how shaming this is to watch from the outside. People hold the U.S. to much higher standards than they do the rest of the world, and this looks just awful.

Even at my most rabid-Republican stage, I never got the whole gun thing. I did not, and still do not, see why it is such a good thing to have so many guns floating around all the time. Many other countries are quite secure without everyone having a gun. I posted as such on a conservative site I used to frequent. Lesson learned: don’t make your email address available in your message board profile. That site used to be a great news source, but now it is completely overrun with hatred towards Democrats, Muslims, and (ubiquitously) Hillary Clinton. (I am looking for a good substitute news portal, if anyone knows one.)

If this is what the party is about, please count me out. Socially, I am quite conservative, but I try to follow the teachings of Jesus, who made it very clear that we are to love, not hate, at all cost. Fellow Christians, we must put this ahead of any social or political agenda we may feel is important. In fact, it would probably be a good thing if a lot of us, especially those in ministry, just forget about politics all together.

Not so much crossing the aisle as lying down on it.

Last election, as I was messing around with the absentee ballot forms, I stopped and thought: why? I didn’t want either of them. Come the next election, if the Republicans are running anyone associated with this administration, I’m not voting for him. (Or her: Dr. Rice, this means you.) I don’t think the U.S. can take another four years of Bush-style Republican rule. (I’m not sure it can take another three.) Democrat friends, in your 2008 primaries, please give us someone moderates can vote for and someone who can win.

I know this lacks the bile traditional for Pit postings and may get moved to MPSIMS. I don’t have the authority to anathematize anyone, and like I said, I don’t go around hating people. I’ve need to get this off my chest for a while, plus in some threads people were wondering if all of these cumulative fiascos would have any effect politically with Bush’s base. The answer is, oh yes.

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Thank you for being so honest.

Please don’t give up on politics. We need good people to be the conscience of this nation.

I feel like we’ve all been travelling through a desert where vices are extolled as virtues. Greed is good. Selfishness is power. Ignorance is strength. Up is down.

Words like yours make me think that maybe that journey is coming to an end.

If any good comes out of this horrific disaster is may be that it exposes the hollowness that lies at the heart of the modern conservative establishment. Their words are empty. Their promises meaningless.

I’m a liberal. I’m an atheist. But I’m an American. And sir, I’m proud that you’re an American too. I’m sure if you and I sat down together there are many things we would disagree over. But I think we would be united in our desire to see America once again become the shining beacon that it once was. Not necessarily richer, not necessarily stronger, but more fair and more just.

I don’t have much more to say. Don’t give up hope. I think in the long run truth always wins out over lies. And if truth and goodness and kindness prevail, I don’t really care which side wins.

3

No, Theologue! Exactly wrong! Don’t throw yourself out of the Republican Party, throw them out of the Republican Party! Said it before, saying it again: Speaking as someone whose politics are…left of center. A democracy needs an honest and functional conservative faction, people not opposed to progress but mindful of practicality and prudence. A car needs brakes.

As well, sometimes guys on our team gets funny ideas. So we need honest Republicans so we can say stuff like “Hey, sure, loved your plan for legalizing marijuana for gay whales, but, you know, the Republicans wouldn’t let us. Yeah, died in committee, damn shame 'bout that…”

We, of course, stand ready to return the courtesy, as the occassion warrants.

4

I second what elucidator said. Demand better Republicans, and make them aware of it. Don’t turn your eyes from the shameful stuff, make them ashamed and make your party produce more decent leaders. Don’t tolerate lies, deceit, and smears, and tell everyone you know the same thing. But don’t wait for the last straw next time, act when you see the first.

We all need that from all of the Republicans.

But please don’t vote for Republicans just because they are Republicans.

5

Thanks all for your nice words.

I’m limited in what I can do with politics as I’m not in the U.S. most of the time. My state is very red.

A big frustration in all of this is that politics is no longer “one party is center-right, one party is center-left, but we’re all Americans trying to work for the common good.” It’s degraded to the point that it’s now one big cosmic battle of good versus evil, and Satan is… the other guy. Sadly, I don’t see that changing anytime soon.

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Clarification: that’s not how I see it, but how I see people perceiving it and acting, and there’s no room for nice people and courtesy.

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Second, third, and fourth everything mentioned above.

Theologue, welcome to the light. I’m not talking about the left wing, I’m talking about good people who want a government worthy of this great country. You can be a conservative and be a honorable person who wants what’s best for your country.

I can’t say the same thing for those who still call themselves Republicans.

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Really cool posts, Theologue! I’m a liberal Christian but open to learning from many faiths.

It would be a relief to focus on love, stewardship, and service again. Too many Christians sound so angry and suspicious.

I’ve wondered if Pat Robertson is having problems with dementia perhaps. What he said recently is contradictory to things he has written previously.

There is the possibility that neither you nor I will be able to vote for a major candidate in the near future. But then maybe we shouldn’t expect perfection either.

It would be nice to see a new face.

Peace be with you.

9

There are men and women of honor of both parties, unfortunately the Republican Party is not run by them. Perhaps Bush’s fiasco of a presidency will signal the beginning of the end of neoconservatism, and sanity will return to the GOP. The country needs two strong and divergent but morally upright parties, so if you don’t want to join the Democrats (but you are of course welcome), then I wish you the best of luck in reclaiming the Republican Party.

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Isn’t this the guy who in the mid-eighties claimed that Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles was a liberal tool to teach our children to worship Satan? Isn’t this the guy who, on a presidential campaign, claimed credit for a hurricane that missed Virginia (and devastated Florida) because he prayed to make it happen?

I’m no expert on him, and I may be getting the details wrong, but overall, my memories of the man are of him spouting constant wacky hatred.

Daniel

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This article (admittedly on rotten.com, but still seeming a good overview) gives a history of Robertson’s inglorious career. It only mentions the Ninja Turtle obliquely–when it refers to his charge of occultism on television, the mystical rat was one of his example–and the hurricane that missed Virginia Beach hit Boston and not Florida. But otherwise, the man was, and is, a first-class creep.

Daniel

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Exactly my sentiments. I hope that all across this country there are Republicans of good will and good conscience who are coming to the same painful conclusion as Theologue, and are in positions to do something concrete about it.

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Red states turn blue one vote at a time, Theologue. Only if thoughtful people like you examine what their party stands for will change occur. And remember, Christians were a significant voice in the anti-war movement of the 60’s. We needed your help then, and we need it now. I think you will find that the events since the '04 election are awakening many Republicans to the truth about who has hijacked their party. elucidator is right; the best thing you could do is to demand that your party change from within. America functions best when there are checks and balances, and that includes political parties who are exercising thoughtful, reasoned approaches to the problems we face, even if we do not always agree.

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Theologue, you sound like a Christian I would like. So many forget the parts of the Bible that refer to “love your enemy”. I too am sick of the way politics have torn this country apart. And my husband has actually admitted to me he’s ashamed he voted for Bush. Please stay safe wherever you are. We need more people like you in the world.

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Excellent OP. I’m sorry that it has taken something like the horrifying scenes of abject misery displayed in the central Gulf coast this week to finally expose the utter fecklessness of the President and his merry band of cutthroats to many who, until now, have given him a pass based on his (hollow, IMO) claims of adhering to Christian moral principles. Would that Mr. Bush’s near-total lack of feck had been more obvious to more people earlier.

Me, the current administration demonstrates that picking governmental leadership on abstract ideological concepts rather than demonstrated competence can be, er, problematic. At the top, the only particular competencies the adminstration has displayed since it was first more or less elected has been in the areas of manipulating facts, smearing opponents and thinking up ever more inventive ways of handing out public funds to supporters.

One can (and in the case of this board certainly does) argue endlessly about the motives and morality of certain members of the administration, but in terms of actual performance, this bunch hasn’t shown that it could manage a one-chair barbershop effectively, much less the whole fricken’ government.

BTW, I’m not claiming that a Democratic administration would have done better, simply that it’s hard to conceive of any administration that could have done worse.

16

My husband and I just this morning were discussing the dearth of anyone moderate having any influence in politics these days. I tend to be quite liberal, he tends to be quite conservative, and yet right now either one of us would vote for an intelligent, thoughtful, caring moderate of either party. Even he, who liked Bush initially, has come to believe that Bush is not only stupid but utterly lacking in basic human compassion.

Please don’t give up, Theologue, and do join the (hopefully) growing groundswell of people who are sick to death of the absence of collegiality, of compromise, of intelligent discourse, of thoughtful discussion leading to finding a common ground. There are a lot of people who would like to see a change, even ones like me who are neither Christian nor conservative, and would probably find more to agree with you on than either one of us would believe possible.

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IMO, at this stage, the religious conservative/Republican alliance needs to be ended by its participants. It has failed utterly in helping Christians achieve some of their more noble goals (ones better pursued by non-political means) and roped them in to support very questionable policies and actions. I know many on this board are concerned about the effect religion is having on politics; I’m concerned about the effect politics is having on religion. Support for The Agenda has become almost an article of faith in some circles.

People back home would probably stone me (or maybe not at this stage) for saying this, but do we really want this to continue one for another four or eight or more years? Some major realignment is needed. Unfortunately, I don’t foresee it happening.

Goodnight all.

“But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control; against such things there is no law.” (Galatians. 5:22-23)

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As far as the gun thing, I should point out: given that bad people were going to have guns no matter what, wouldn’t you want, as a good citizen, to be able to own a gun to protect your family in the midst of such a crisis?

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Apos, ISTM that there’s a difference between “being able to own a gun” and having “tons of gun shops lying around for people to loot” and “so many guns floating around all the time”, which is what the OP was actually expressing concern about.

Yes, it’s true that some bad people will have guns no matter what, but in societies where there are fewer guns, there are fewer criminals who have them. The “given bad people will have guns no matter what” argument is a strawman. Bad people don’t actually get guns “no matter what”—they get guns depending on a wide variety of factors, including the general accessibility of guns in the society as a whole.

(And I say this as somebody who has no problem with responsible gun ownership and no desire to ban guns. I just don’t buy gun advocates’ attempts to argue that the sheer volume of firearms readily available in a society has no effect on the acquisition and use of guns by criminals.)

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carefully sidesteps Apos’ hijack

I’ve seen statements like this from several of my hardline conservative friends, and although I’m glad more people are headed into Sane Moderationville, I’m also sad that (as El_Kabong pointed out) it seems a disaster of this magnitude is what was needed to open those gates.

To borrow a leaf from Langston Hughes, it’s time for us to let America be America again.