Theologue, there are alternatives to being either “religious right” or “liberal,” or even Dem or Pub. I find a libertarian approach to be entirely compatible with Christianity.
Really? What is your take on the whole “sell everything you have and give to the poor” thing?
I have problems with libertarianism… probably this isn’t the best thread to get into them. One good thing (sort of) about both the Republicans and the Democrats is that they purportedly care about social issues. Which ones, how much, and whether they take worthy positions on those issues is all debatable. Libertarianism seems to me, at the theoretical if not every individual libertarian’s practical level, to be mostly concerned just with the individual. “Don’t bother me, and I won’t bother you,” is fine, but that can easily become, “as long as I get mine, I don’t care what happens to anyone else.” One problem that liberal Christians have with conservative American Christians is the insular attitude, “Lord, bless us, just us four and no more.” Libertarianism reminds me of that.
I once thought of opening an IMHO thread, “Peg me politically!” I am the rare (and probably detested) combination of a social conservative and fiscal moderate. For example, I don’t think socialized medicine is necessarily a bad idea. I don’t think the government can solve already problems or should be involved in the solution of all problems, but neither do I think it has no role socially. Anyway, I’m not a political beast, just generally disappointed to horrified with the way things are going presently.
Way to go, Theologue!
Now, won’t you please come back to the U.S. and vote? 
Eloquently said. That’s my main beef with libertarianism, other than the impossibility of hoping that major public works could have or would have been privately built. Of the two serious parties, the Democrats are, in my opinion, much more concerned with helping our fellow man. From Social Security to the Civil Rights Act, Democrats have taken the lead in making government an ally of the people.
That’s probably my biggest complaint with the government right now – our tripartite system of checks and balances is being seriously disrupted with one party controlling virtually everything. Even my husband, who detests Kerry with a passion usually only reserved for Bill Clinton and Jane Fonda, voted for him simply because he is very concerned about the lack of balance in government.
My hope for the next national election is to see balance restored to the government. I don’t care whether it means a Republican president and Democrat-controlled congress or vice versa, but with the Supreme Court firmly in the hands of conservatives now we need to get some balance somewhere.
It’s folks like you, Theologue, who may help restore that balance. I urge you to vote where it will most help achieve that goal.
I fail to see the contradiction; Jesus never suggested that the government should make you sell your stuff and give to the poor.
Other than the libertarian foundation that rights are conferred by the ownership of property, and those without property have no say in making the rules? Jesus said sell your belongings; if you do not, you are not a good Christian. Whether government compels it is irrelevant.
I don’t live up to it. I suspect few christians do, whether republican, democrat or otherwise.
I do, however, give a significant percent of my income to charities that help the third world. Is that the sort of thing you were asking?
I have never heard of such an idea, and I do not believe it.
I agree. We have an abundance of Christians, but very few followers of Jesus. Pity.
I’d agree with that; but I’d say that both liberals and conservatives have the converse problem of seeing social policies as things that are done to/for classes of people without addressing the complicated reality of disparate individuals. Conservative social policies can devolve into rigid and indifferent moralising, and liberal ones into endless well-meaning charity that actually perpetuates problems.
In the end, I don’t think any philosophy has all the answers…
I am agnostic but I have been a republican since I could register.
However the Republican Party left me behind years ago.
When Dole went from being the far right in the 80’s to the moderate in the 90’s I realized I was in trouble.
But I stay in the party; I hope that someday the moderates will throw the religious right out of power.
I hope to have a chance to vote for someone like McCain or Rudy Giuliani.
I will settle for a democrat that is like Bill Bradley.
Last 3 elections I voted against the republicans.
The slimy and morally weak Clinton who I felt was a Good President despite his personnel shortcomings.
I was hoping to vote for McCain or Bradley, but this was not to be and I voted for Nader in a state that went to Gore. Bush appeared to win via chicanery in his brother’s state with less popular vote than Gore. I was outraged.
Last time I thought maybe Dean wouldn’t be to bad, but no Kerry & Edwards who represent everything I have always disliked about the Dem’s were my choice.
I bit down by Bile and voted for them. If the Dem’s had just provided a moderate candidate I believe Bush Jr would be gone.
So please stay in the party and help worked towards a moderate agenda.
I for one would love to see the Republican Party be saved from having been Shaghaied by the hard-right fundamentalists.
I, too, was once a registered Republican. I gave that up when a lot of Republicans were unhappy with G.H.W.Bush for being dangerously liberal. Also, the increasing influence of far-right, fascist “Christian” wackos was becoming very uncomfortable. How sad that it got so much worse!
Please, please, PLEASE take back the Party of Lincoln!
I am a lifelong Democrat. I consider GWB to be the worst President during my lifeline, and I was very close to being drafted to Vietnam by Nixon.
Nevertheless, I understand those who didn’t like Kerry during the last election, and I am from Massachusetts. I feel that Kerry abandoned his principles by voting for the war in Iraq (this was the anti-war protester, fer goodness sakes!) I can see how that dislike caused folks to vote for Bush, but I think that most of those folks were holding their noses when they did so. I mean c’mon, Kerry’s patriotism being questioned by a drunken fratboy who hid behind his father in the National Guard? :rolleyes:
At one point in 2004 I could have considered voting Republican if it had been Kerry/McCain, but my respect for McCain eroded when he sucked up to the Republicans, and *that * after he had been smeared by the Bush/Rove machine in the 2000 primaries. I ended up voting for Kerry, and yes, there was a certain amount of nose holding going on…
This administration has made it very clear to me that its own self interest trumps everything else. I have seen cronyism, nepotism, dishonesty, revenge… I think that the motto “Thieves, Thugs and Liars” should be added to the Presidential Seal for the next three years.
As a very general rule, I think Republican philosophy works best in rural areas, and Democratic philosophy is best in urban areas. Republicans are more likely to shun government stepping it when they have the ability to take care of things themselves at the local level. That works okay in smaller communities, but as we become more urbanized with more social service programs, Democratic principles are required. As such, I think that Democrats are more interested in the common man, and Republicans are more interested in people they know (and tend to lack sympathy for folks they don’t know).
A current example: A Republican Congress passed a bankruptcy law that will cause debt to follow an individual for the rest of their lives. Including victims of Katrina. I believe that it is Democrats proposing that this legislation be lifted for these victims, but the bigger question is why these victims alone should be sheltered. I can’t imagine crushing debt because of illness, but I’d like to think that the government would be more sympathetic to me rather than a credit card company and its lobbyists.
Theologue, I have heard many Republicans (Christian or not) who have echoed your sentiments. This administration has tried the patience of every Democrat, and strained the logic of every Republican. I can’t tell you whether you should leave the party or not. There are many honorable Republicans, those with whom I disagree but that I can fully respect. But their voices are drowned in the roar of the greedy, the power hungry and the sycophants. Whichever way you decide to vote, please keep the intelligence and conscience that you have shown here.
best to all,
plynck
Theologue: are you familiar with Tony Campolo? If not, you might find his work very helpful to you in thinking these things through.
This is a definition of the term with which I am not familiar.
On the contrary, it is not only relevant but vitally important. The great majority of social conservatives who would like to bring people around to their way of thinking by persuasion and example are horribly ill served by the current theocratic “movement” political leadership. The latter arouse strong negative reaction because of their advocacy of various government compulsions, and this reactions spills over and causes people to reject the former as well.
Correction: if you do not, you are not perfect. You might want to read the passage: