Yeah but my definition for a “better future for humanity” doesn’t happen to include genocide.
Well, kids, off to Madrid in a few hours. Taking my laptop but doubt I’ll be posting as much – got a ton of things to do over there. Both work-wise and just plain fun.
All of that will get done – after a civil war is waged and everything settles out into a new power structure, possibly one involving three separate states.
It can’t be avoided, so it’s best to get it over with. Soonest begun is soonest done.
Why does this thread turn into a bitch slapping contest as soon as someone opens their mouths of how the War effort could actually be doing some good,bad,whatever?
And since RedFury doesn’t seem o care much, if at all where his cites come from, as long as they agree with his bullheaded views, I’ll make use of said disdain and post part of one of the latests entries from my favorite, Baghdad blogger, IraqTheModel:
If US withdraws from Iraq, the Sunnis will be defeated, that’s a given, however, what’s not a given is the country immediately becoming a theocratic Iran style state. There’s too much division for that kind of ideology to be imposed over everyone on the country.
Uh-huh, tell that to the Afghans mate.
Enclave sounds rather Vienamish, don’t you think? Enclave plans usually are where there is a major base which doesn’t interact with the host population, in the ‘Surge’ this is exactly the opposite. Besides, you can’t win hearts and minds whilst fortifying yourself in remote bases, you have to actually show the population you’re willing to take a risk and make sure such areas they’re placed in are secure. It’s confidence building. Why would a resident risk their lives for someone who only comes round patrolling every other day of the week?
So Air power is now defunct, even without accurate and specific intelligence to seek out people they’re wanting to take out?
That’s the risk you have too take, but you’ll looking at it too one dimensionally, pacification is a combination of political, military and economic strategies to ensure the area is peaceful and secure.
We can have a troop surge, stay for 10 years, and watch the government fall to civil war, or we can pull out now and watch the government fall to civil war. Seems we’d loose less money and American lives if we left now.
According to the admittedly crude measures of Iraq Coalition Casualties, civilian casualties in Iraq this March were pretty much the equal of any month over the past couple of years, excepting last August and September. (March deaths of 1674; other than last August and September, no month with more than 1741 recorded deaths.)
Due to the crudeness of the measure (like Iraq Body Count, it relies on reports in the international press, and is subject to the same weaknesses - but I couldn’t find monthly totals on IBC), that doesn’t mean the ‘surge’ is failing. But if one claims the evidence shows the surge is working, one must come up with evidence at least that good in support of the proposition.
They left, and the war with the Muhajadeen dragged on, pretty much destroying any institutions the Afghan Government had. Civil wars sometimes don’t come to conclusions.
How was The Taliban NOT a ‘conclusion’? That they harbored AQ and they were fundamentalists does NOT in any way mean that it wasn’t one.
Af course the fact that you (and we) ended-up going to war against, again, does not detract from their legitimacy. And it is also sad commentary that we haven’t done too well there either – the forgotten war so-to-speak.
<off topic>Muchas gracias, Gomi-Boy. Great trip. Weather awesone, it even stop raining to welcome me. It’s ‘bout six in the morning and its full tilt ahead likely for the rest of the day. But I’m lovin’ it. It’ll always feel like home to me – in fact partly the reason why I’m here, putting the finishing touches on an apartment I share with my sis we just got done totally remodeling</off-topic>
They didn’t completely defeat the Northern Alliance, headed by Massoud, who was assasinated by Al Queda or the Taliban, I can’t remember. The fact is the war after the Soviets left isn’t completely over. It simmered for a while in the 90’s and came back into the fold after 9/11. So BrainGluttons hypothesis is incorrect.
They weren’t legitimate to start from, those ‘indigenous Talibs’ were in fact trained and propped up by the ISI across the border into Pakistan. It was a murderous, woman suppressing, violent Islamist racist thuggish government which I’m very happy we’re trying to defeat and get rid of in Afghanistan. I think the ethnic Hazaras will be very happy since the Taliban massacred them and countless others. Good riddance to them.
Who’s “they”?
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