Iraq war for Catholics is sinful.

Iraq war for Catholics and Protestants is sinful.

Disclaimer: I am not a fan of Saddam Hussein, but I believe that conflicts can be resolved without war and violence, and certainly without the killing fellow humans.)
News reports indicate that Uday and Qusay and two others, one a boy of fourteen, were killed from massive firepower launched by the US military forces on them in a raid lasting six hours.

Why the US military had to kill them when they could have taken them alive, for example, by smoking them out. That, it would appear to me, is a sin from the part of Catholics who participated in the raid, if any; for they had been told by their Pope from before the attack on Iraq by the U.S. that the war on Iraq is not justified.

I am a postgraduate Catholic, and for me the Pope now is an indifferent character. But as one who was taught from childhood about the Catholic faith and had lived loyally the Catholic faith – until I gradually and practically now fully come to consider and to conduct myself as a postgraduate Catholic –- I can tell you all here that membership in the Catholic Church carries with it the very solemnly sacrosanct duty to obey the Pope in morals and in dogmas.

Since the Pope did speak out against the war of the U.S. against Iraq, declaring it unjustified, Catholics who support and even join in the active prosecution of the war, and still continue in the occupation of Iraq, the conclusion seems inexorable, they are committing the sin of directly disobeying the Pope and that by participating in the U.S. war against Iraq.

Protestants would now also seem to be committing the sin of participating in an unjust war, if they now continue to support and to take part in the war; since more and more each day the reasons for the war are proving to be conspicuously false, without basis. But until these untruths have been more and more proven and exposed and publicized to be untruths, Protestants could have just obeyed the dictate of Bush on the need and justification of attacking Iraq, and occupying the country and subjugating the Iraqi people. Or they could have earlier employed their private judgment to assure their private conscience. But not now.

With Catholics, private judgment is not an option in any way when the Pope speaks out to declare an action immoral, in the present concern, that the war on Iraq is not justified.

Bush and his colleagues, all of them who consider themselves and profess themselves to be Christians, now that they are shown to have been wrong or mistaken in the reasons they had convinced themselves on, they are in all logic now also in a sinful state, for continuing to pursue the war on Iraq by maintaining an occupation force over the land and its people.

So, let’s hear from you guys here. (He he he. But I am serious here.)

Susma Rio Sep

Sequential Thread titles:
Iraq war for Catholics is sinful.
Catholicism, Geocentrism, and Galileo
Christianity and premarital sex

I think these three go together, because they all come down to the same phenomenon of religion: that people take the current teaching of their religious leaders as the very will of God, & the current conventional wisdom of their teachers as divinely revealed truth, when in point of fact the mores of a religious community evolve, & people actively try to change them.

Christianity is not intrinsically Geocentric, but Geocentrism was a major part of the worldview of some Christians.
War has not always been prohibited to Christians, & Jesus seems to have expected his apostles to be able to fight, but many Christians interpret some of his teachings as pacifistic, & assume that they must be pacifists to be Christians.
And sexual mores have varied in various societies, not least Christian ones. Marriage may be seen as a sacrament, but it exists as an institution independently of any one religion.

When I was a child, I thought that Christianity required me to be a pacifist. My view now is that the Judeo-Christian tradition does not require pacifism, & that the belief that it does is a misinterpretation of “turn the other cheek” inter alia.

Of course, the Christian religion (rather than the opinions of John Paul II) actually forbids the extermination of fascistic thugocrats like Saddam Hussein’s family, then it is the Christian religion that is called into question, not the war itself.

“IF the Christian religion…”
Proofread, fool!

I see. And by the same logic, what the Pope declares moral is correct, and private judgement is not allowed? Please explain the following excerpt from history:

http://www.geocities.com/hugenoteblad/hist-hug.htm

So therefore, it was a sin * not * to burn Protestants alive or otherwise massacre them? At this point, my faith in Papal infallibility becomes non-existent.

History has many examples of the Vatican choosing sides that by current standards we would judge immoral, including excommunicating or threatening to excommunicate leaders and/or soldiers in order to obtain political ends.

Practically speaking, it would be impossible for the US military (or any other military) to allow soldiers to accept or refuse assignments based on personal beliefs. (In this case, it would grant the Vatican enormous influence over other state’s foreign policy.) The oath you take as a soldier overrides your personal belief system.

As a Catholic, from what I understand, unless the Pope is speaking ex cathedra, then Catholics can disagree with what he says. So since the pope wasn’t speaking ex cathedra when making his dislike of the war known, then it’s OK for Catholics like to me to disagree with him and have no problem with the war.

IIRC, the conditions under which the Pope is to be considered as speaking infallibly (by Roman Catholics) are:
[ul][li]He must be addressing a matter of faith and morals[/li][li]He must have consulted with the college of cardinals[/li][li]He must state explicitly that he is speaking ex cathedra[/ul] There has been no ex cathedra statement from the Papacy since the declaration of the Assumption of the Blessed Virgin. [/li]
Therefore, Roman Catholics owe no duty of obedience to the Pope on the matter of the war in Iraq.

IANACatholic, nor a canon lawyer.

Regards,
Shodan

"Why the US military had to kill them when they could have taken them alive, for example, by smoking them out. "
What does that mean? What are they, bees?

I don’t see how not obeying the Pope could be considered a sin.