Well, the comment would certainly make me even more opposed to Saddam. However, it would and should have no bearing in the present context on a decision whether or not to wage war. Such rhetoric would add no new information about human rights in Iraq or about Saddam Q. Evil’s predilection for brutality. Are you suggesting foreign policy based on emotional reactions to extortive threats?
Yes, you missed the memo. Despite the lack of millions of people protesting against this war, despite the near-universal rallying around the US invasion by citizens of the Earth, the one and only opponent has been appointed king.
Millions of people have protested, but billions have not. The Coalition of the Willing is the third largest military coalition in the history of the world. And France is engaged in considerable back-peddling and fence-mending even as we speak. They’ve already said the US can use their air-space and that if bio-chem weapons are used by Saddam, they will send troops.
Lib, millions of people have organized against world hunger and AIDS, but billions have not. This must mean that on the whole, the world wants those things, eh?
The only one of the “lies” you cited that has not been refuted by zigaretten is the Nigerian uranium connection, and that seems to have been an intelligence failure rather than a lie. Perhaps a nitpick, but I don’t want you to turn into elucidator, who spouts those kind of accusations like a creationist does references to Piltdown man.
The trouble being that, without the threat of war behind them, Saddam does not and will not respond to “diplomatic and economic pressure”.
Saddam knows perfectly well that he has nothing to fear from the French. He has successfully stalled for twelve years, during which he simply denied access to the inspectors with no consequences to himself. (Obviously his thefts and violations of sanctions have caused immense suffering to the Iraqi people, but he cares nothing for that.)
Now we have a President who, for a number of reasons, has decided really to enforce the terms of the ceasefire. The response of the French, Russians, and the rest of the Axis of Weasel seems to be, “Well, he hasn’t done it for twelve years, but give him another month and he will.”
But he doesn’t. Read the report from Hans Blix. Saddam has not been forthcoming, he has not cooperated with the inspections, he has not, in other words, done what the French and Germans claim he would, given even more time.
Is it any wonder that he has made the calculation that if simply continues with his “cheat and retreat” strategy, he will wear out the opposition, who (apart from Bush and Blair) have made it quite clear that they will never use force to make Saddam live up to his commitments?
Saddam does not, he has not, responded to “diplomatic and economic pressure”. Not for twelve years, not when Clinton fired missiles at him, not when his people starve, not when the Kurds revolt against him, not ever.
There comes a time when enough is enough. I cannot imagine any way in which Saddam could make it any clearer that he will never abide by his commitments. He is not going to change. Ever.
And so we move to the next step, which is regime change.
It is like a patient who is on every conceivable form of life support, who has terminal and inoperable cancer. The doctors will always be able to think of another thing to try. A different drug, another machine, another operation, some more radiation - always one more thing. But everybody knows the patient is dying, and that nothing is going to change that. Better to eliminate the suffering, even if it means that the patient’s family is going to grieve today instead of three weeks from now.
Enough is enough. Let’s finish this, and start the (no doubt long and painful) process of allowing Iraq to develop into a disarmed, and (hopefully) marginally better regime that does not threaten its neighbors and torture its own people.
No, it is not going to be quick, and a golden age for Iraq is not a few years away. But at the very least, the Wicked Witch of the Middle East is about to have a house dropped on him. Because allowing the French to sky-write “Surrender Dorothy” for the next dozen years is not going to help any more than it has for the last dozen years.
Just FTR since it’s come up several times in the thread, here’s a summary of the legality of assassination. It’s not as cut and dried as one might think.
One thing the article doesn’t mention is a House Resolution (19, I think) that Bob Barr submitted that would rescind the executive order against assassination in its entirety. However, I don’t know what’s happened to that resolution, it’s possible that it died in committee.
I forget where I read it or heard it, but someone said if Saddam really wanted to disarm, the inspectors could simply hang out in a parking lot, while the Iraqis brought the weapons to them to be accounted for.
Rotten paraphrase, but you get the gist.
Anyhoo, South Africa and the Ukraine seemed to disarm with a lot less fuss.
Wait, wait, this is a good one. You don’t see any difference between targeting one thing and hitting something different(civilians) at the same time,( especially when that something different has been put there by the enemy to make sure that when you hit the target you will hurt, maim and kill the enemy’s own civilians) and indescriminate bombing of civilians, is this correct?
Hmmmm.
I think you’re correct, idiot IS the right word to be used here, you’re just pointing it in the wrong direction.
You are forgetting that apparently the only place where war has popular support is the US, and even that is fairly shaky. You could say that 45 or so countries support us. More accurate would say that the rulers of 45 or so countries support us. Most do so despite the populace being firmly anti-war. The war is simply not very popular, even in our best ally - Britain. So we’re in this to let the Iraqi people have a voice in their government, while simultaneously partnering with an array of governments who are ignoring their people’s voices.
But they are free to have their own opinions, and not have other people put words in their mouth. No one is saying that they don’t mind Saddam’s rule, but it is possible that for most people the bombing presents a more significant near-term threat than Saddam does. I, for one, will not stand here and say the Iraqi’s want us to go to war without any proof.
I suspect that zigaretten has, on more than one occasion, provided spirited disagreement and creative interpretation regarding charges of duplicity on the part of the Bushies, rather than any actual refutation of those charges, but I would be pleased if you could provide links.
As far as becoming elucidator, I have to say I’m not capable of his level of inventive humor as a weapon against [right wing] ideological blindness; my creativity lies more in the realms of invective, sarcasm and priggish judgementalism (hence, the recitation of Bush’s lies); just consider me the Jeff to 'luce’s Mutt. But thanks for the kind thought!
I think that the inspectors should have been allowed to continue what they were doing. Blix’s reports were not all negative about what was happening there.
Since we were not in imminent danger of attack from Iraq, and since the citizens of the countries that are our allies are opposed to the war, and since our nation is deeply divided about going to war, we should have waited for the United Nations to stand with us before going to war.
I will probably always be opposed to war, but I wouldn’t have been so vocal about my opposition if the diplomatic process had been allowed to play itself out.
I am aware, however, that there is so much that I don’t know.
Wow. He speaks pretty good english. And he doesn’t mind speaking on tape!
I’ll tell you, if our goal is to protect the people of this region from atrocities committed by their countrymen, we are gonna rack up some serious frequent flyer miles going back every couple of years.
I wish it would stop from way over here. But I do not believe that Bush cares about these things. I believe he cares about diverting our attention from a bad economy (which war will not help) and manipulating oil prices and new drilling in places they can’t drill right now.
And I believe it will be a very short amount of time before these heinous crimes against humanity continue with a new face, without a peep from Bush.
