Is 25 the new 21?

In My Humble Opinion
61

So, honest question: in your opinion, is it better for a person to live at their parents from 22-25, move out at 25 and not move back, or to move out at 22, move back at 25 and move out again at 28?

It seems to me the former is better than the latter, and I think a lot of college graduates (but, as you point out, not the majority) are facing that choice.

Fair enough, although I would hope the people stuck living with their parents are not so much “screwing around” as they are job-seeking, skill-building and establishing financial security.

This seems like a key difference with the new generation. The Millennials don’t value financial independence over all other factors, and in fact value it quite a bit less than temporary financial security.

62

Speaking as someone who’s not American (Singaporean) and who lived with his parents until he was 27, had a job and had just gotten married, the concept of creating economic inefficiencies on purpose (you parents aren’t going to rent out your room, so in essence you’re just willingly imposing rent costs on yourself) seems crazy to me.

You have no saving at all. Why take on the burden of rent?

That said, once I got married the wife and I got our own place even though we could have continued living with our parents.

63

like I said above, the notion of “18 and you’re out” is a uniquely post-WWII American phenomenon.

64

The vast majority of people I know who moved out right away have had significant financial assistance from their parents for several years, an amount that easily could have been significantly lessened if they had stayed home longer. And many people I have known move back home to save enough money for a down payment when they want to buy a house.

It’s a biased sample though, I am a fuckup for the most part so I generally repel non fuckups so my social circle is not an unbiased sample of the general US.

65

I moved out when I was 18 and went to college. No parental support or full-time job needed. All these things vary by location and living situation, time, culture, etc. This was the mid-late 90s. I went to a local college w/ academic scholarship, plus Pell Grant and freshman Stafford loan- that pretty much paid my rent for a year. I split a 4 BR house 3-ways. I worked full-time in the summer at a restaurant, and saved my money. Roommates worked part-time in retail/restaurants as did most people I knew. Since this was mid-90s, we had 1 computer on dialup in the house. I think we skipped cable. Basic landline w/ an answering machine. We all had cars we owned outright, from working/saving or modest gift from parents.

Even though times have changed- tuition has increased (but so has minimum wage), “necessities” have evolved, I’m pretty sure I could do the same thing today in today’s dollars, and I know people who do. My brother and sister never lived at home once they left for college, either.

As far as getting “established” goes, there is a not insignificant % of the population (millions) that never really establish themselves in a stable well-paying career track, yet still manage to not live with their parents. They get jobs, roommates, don’t buy a bunch of consumer goods or intoxicants while mooching off relatives, etc.

When I was 22, I had a really bad break up. I had made a deal w/ my GF to transfer schools to be closer to the school where she was pursuing her doctorate. After I moved I got really depressed, went into a prolonged state of depersonalization, and dropped out of school.

All it took was one summer back living on my mom’s couch (we didn’t have a mansion) for me to save up enough money to get my next apartment and never look back. I never made more than single digits pr-hour, either.

Culture, and changes, has a lot to do with it. Maybe the moving out at 18 thing was just more expected and desired in the past than it is now. I don’t know anyone who actually WANTED to live with their parents at 18. Even my friend who was a virgin until he was 26-27 at least wanted the option to have a date spend the night if he ever got the chance. Plus whatever other reasons you can imagine that young adults don’t wan’t to live with their middle-aged/elderly relatives. Now it might be different.

66

Well, I hadn’t planned to move out *quite *so quickly. I’d wanted to save up and get a house of my own. And at that time and place, it would’ve been ok for a girl to stay home for a few years more. (Yeah, I know. Sexism.)

But I moved out of my dad’s place because my Asshole Brother moved in with my dad. Asshole Brother comes with a an aura of drama and entitlement and self-involvement that you cannot believe until you see it.

25 years later, Asshole Brother and his family are STILL living with my father. This would bother me less if Asshole Brother weren’t a vocal “Libertarian” who’s against all social programs. And he tells me this after dad gives him gas money. :smack::smack:

67

The appeal is mostly independence. Whether it is having friends over at 3am, not being told to clean up, or moving to a different city, I would say most (but obviously not all) Americans would prefer maintaining that independence, especially if they did not live at home during college.

68

All opportunities come with risks, and people who are willing to take risks tend to have more opportunities.

Financial security is hugely important, don’t get me wrong. But there is also something to be said for developing grit and fearlessness. It is scary to live all alone in a crappy apartment, on the “crappy” side of town, with minimal resources. But once you realize you can do it, it makes other problems seem less daunting.

I also think experiencing a little deprivation is necessary for ambition. Having a standard of living that’s considerably lower than what your parents raised you with makes you take chances that perhaps you wouldn’t take otherwise. It is easy to think of yourself as middle-class when you’re living in your parents’ middle class shadow. Take that illusion away, though, and suddenly you realize how low you really are on the totem pole. For some people, this is an excellent motivator to hustle.

69

I think it largely depends upon not just the young person, but the parents. I know one woman that the day she graduated high school at 18 her Mom said “THERE, I’ve done my duty, now get out of my house” and she was gone within a week. Then I know of other cases where the parents LIKE having them around and encourage them to stay. I know of another case where yes, the daughter lived in her own apartment but Daddy paid for it. Then there are other cases where the parents just dont have the courage to tell junior to leave and allow them to mooch indefinitely.

But back to my OP, while I can see wanting to live with parents, I’d think it would be bad for the young person because it severely limits there job choices to their home town. Plus being “hungry” is a great incentive to work hard.

70

Because living with parents sucks and is terrible?

71

Really? I mean, I never found living with my parents to be that crazy bad that I would throw away $1000 every month.

72

Most parents aren’t that bad. But really, for most independent-minded people, the “badness” of parental living is less important than the value of freedom. For some people, $1000 a month certainly is worth being able to socialize the way one wants, living as slovenly or clean as one wants, and feeling like a mature person.

I could have saved a lot of money if I had gone to grad school in my hometown and lived with my parents. But then I wouldn’t have had five years worth of adventures in one of the best cities in the world (NYC). How much are fond memories worth? I believe they’re priceless.

73

Have you ever “thrown away” $1,000 a month to see what it buys you? Don’t knock it 'till you’ve tried it!

74

I think it does build perspective and grit to struggle a bit, and I do think being a nation of risk takers is better for America than being a nation of safe-routers. And I believe our geographic mobility has always served us well. Saving to buy a house in an economically challenged area doesn’t seem as smart to me as getting out to where the opportunities are.

75

In most of America, a shared apartment isn’t going to cost you $1000 a month. Only in some of the more expensive cities like Boston or San Francisco.

I pay around $690 a month right now, but I don’t have roommates and live walking distance from work, so I’m paying a premium for that.

And like everyone else has said, the independence is worth it.

76

I think it’s much better to have tried and failed than to never try at all. Moreover, I’m not convinced the guy who moves out for the first time at 25 is much likelier to succeed than the guy who moves out at 22. I get that the idea is to save money, but few 20 year olds can save enough to get through a serious hardship anyway.

What if you live at home until you’re 25, move out, get laid off, and move back home at 28 anyway?

So whether you’re living at home saving cash or not, I don’t believe it’s going to amount to any real financial security. Meanwhile, being on your own helps you develop into an independent person. You’re better equipped to cope with the adversity life throws at you because you’re actually responsible for so much more.

I didn’t mean to disparage people who live at home. I’m sure they’re leading fulfilling lives. I just think it’s counterproductive in becoming a completely independent adult.

77

As you said, maintaining a large presumably nice house costs money. Does the adult child compensate their parents for that? Do you pay a share of the utilities? What about paying part of the lawn care service or maid service, or the cost of keeping the swimming pool open?

Maybe I’m being silly and these adult kids live with parents who can’t afford any minor luxuries either. I like to think most adults in their 50s and 60s maintain a higher quality of living than someone in their 20s. So it seems to me you either 1) pay for your share, in which case you’re spending your hard earned money on things nobody in their 20s needs to spend money on, or 2) are mooching off your parents. 2) isn’t morally reprehensible but it certainly doesn’t seem like a good trend.

78

It took me a few years of working during college (hint: part of the money went towards college and living expenses so it’s not like I was bagging the whole paycheck) in order to save up enough money to move out as soon as I graduated. And then, it took me 6 months to finally scrounge a job. Thankfully, because my savings had run out. I felt like I started on a string and a prayer to have so few advance months of living expenses ready. An $11 an hour job with no benefits is what I ended up finally being able to scrounge - and I had to haggle for that extra dollar.

It’s not “save just barely enough for the deposit and two months rent” it’s “save enough for a year because good luck getting a job quickly”. Of course, if you want to secure a job before moving, I hope that manager is OK with skype or you’re about to foot the bill for traveling wherever just for an interview that may not pan out.

And I didn’t even graduate with any debt due to a privileged family situation. I also owned a car out of the goodness of my parents’ hearts (the tradeoff is you either own a car so you can live in less publicly accessible housing that’s cheaper, or you don’t own a car and have to jump for the more expensive publicly accessible housing). I know I couldn’t have done what I did otherwise. Other people I know are not so lucky and are still working and saving while staying at their parents. They hate it, but they see why it’s the financially correct thing to do for their situations. And woe to the last friend left behind in a town - I’ve heard horror stories from friends who had to rent up with applicants from craigslist because they didn’t have any friends at the time to split rent with.

79

As someone currently working their way through college I can safely say that if you’re still living with your parents at 25 then you probably shouldn’t have gotten that History degree.

I have a part-time job and a decent chunk of money in savings, so by the time I’ve graduated I should have enough money to live for at least a year while I search for long term jobs. With an in-demand major and a decent resume it’s easy to pick up well paying jobs and internships, so if they want to be out of their parent’s house by graduation it’s possible, it’s just a matter of effort.

80

Indeed, as others have noticed, lifestyle considerations are important, in addition to financial ones. I went away to college at 18, and ended up graduating from a university that was in my home city but a considerable distance from my parents’ place, so I lived in apartments near campus. I had a nightmarish experience in those four years, but I’ll skip over that and get to the point, which is that I came back home after graduating, aged 22, planning to somehow get a career going, and then get on with my life, which would have entailed moving out.

Why? 1. Familiarity breeds contempt. Don’t people need some space by that age?

  1. I was getting tired of my hot, boring, staid hometown. It’s time for adventure!

  2. Jobs could well be found elsewhere.

  3. I needed to be an adult, taking care of myself. I didn’t really know how to do that in college, and I should have learned it shortly thereafter.

  4. I wanted/needed to be an adult in other ways as well. Take dating, for example. Lots of people don’t want to date anyone who is still living with their parents, and for good reason. How awkward and uncomfortable would it be to bring dates back to one’s place (or go back to your date’s place) and have to worry about waking the parents? Do they really need to hear you getting intimate? Even if I wanted to get married, which I don’t, I wouldn’t have been able to work towards that in such a condition.

  5. The same thing applies to non-romantic relationships, actually.

  6. Once you’ve experienced the above for several years after high school, do you really want to go back to feeling like a kid?

And so on and so forth.

As it happened, I too was at home until I was 27, to my parents’ vocal dismay and mine. I wasn’t partying at their expense; while I was employed I never made a living wage, and was on no career path, try as I might. A lot of that was my own fault, and once again I’ll skip over it for now, but the point is that those years of my life were extremely unhappy, unhealthy, and generally wasted. I lost my youth in general to depression, and my post-college malaise was a big part of it. Finally, in desperation, I realized that my GRE test scores were about to expire, so I made another stab at going to graduate school.

It worked, and saved my life. I wish I had done it sooner; though that would mean I would have less money in the bank upon leaving home and moving to a new city, it would encentivize more financial discipline. In any case, I only began to get un-depressed, and awaken as a human being, upon moving here. I still have a lot of work to do on myself, but quite frankly these days I don’t like going back to my hometown, or dealing with my parents more than I absolutely have to.