Oh, and did you know that the Japanese did invade American soil? They invaded a few of the Alutian islands shortly after Pearl Harbor. (If you need more, I can provide cites etc.)
So, how did Yamamoto conceal his carriers from our spy satellites?
But what about the stealth carriers? Those could slip right past our pickets and launch right in our back yard.
And we’re all aware that the Japanese “invasion force” at Pearl Harbor was a million men strong, right?
No, Japan could not have invaded our mainland for precisely the same reason we were sick with dread that we might have to invade their mainland (and that was even AFTER we’d gone through all the time, expense and manpower to establish bases in the South Pacific during our “island hopping”)…they’d have been chewed to pieces by the military, the citizenry, the geography, and the necessity to maintain supply lines all the way across the Pacific Ocean.
See, the reason we’re panning your scenario, Alien is because the assumptions are utterly unreasonable. It’s like MEBuckner said, “first you have to assume that the American soldiers have no bullets.” Completely unrealistic and unreasonable assumptions.
…hearts and minds. The only way at the moment to complete a successful takeover of the United States would be to win the propeganda war first. I would develop a leader who would appeal to the extreme right-wing (eg McVeigh)-and then convince them that the current government is immoral and needed to be overturned. Find an extremist American who is extremely popular, and name him the “real United States President.” Smuggle in arms and explosives-NO WMD’s.
Using the combined forces of the world (I think that this is allowed by the OP!), Blitkrieg Mexico, station troops on the borders, and then wait for a couple of years. Win the hearts and minds of the Mexicans-then make the move on the United States. Get your extremist’s to begin partisan actions, and move your invasion force north, annexxing the west coast first, before sweeping in a gradual wave to the east. Keep civilian casualties to a minimum-and if casualties are inflicted blame it on the other side. Take control of the airwaves. Get people to rally around the “real President.” Rely on converting Americans, not killing them. Eventually, using your President, take puppet control of the country.
Any flaws in this plan? About a hundred and fifty. 
I look forward to fellow dopers tearing it too shreds. ( I came up with this in five minutes, be nice guys!)
Canada is a member of NATO and an allied nation; by treaty we are bound to consider an attack on Canda as an attack on the United States (and Canada is bound to consider an attack on the U.S. as an attack on Canada). Mexico doesn’t have the kind of full-scale alliance represented by NATO, but there is the Inter-American Treaty of Reciprocal Assistance (“Rio Treaty”) which states that “an armed attack by any State against an American State shall be considered as an attack against all the American States and, consequently, each one of the said Contracting Parties undertakes to assist in meeting the attack in the exercise of the inherent right of individual or collective self-defense recognized by Article 51 of the Charter of the United Nations”, and I’m quite sure we’d respond favorably to a request for help if Mexico were invaded by a million Ruritanians. (“American States” here refers to the sovereign nations of the Western Hemisphere, not the 50 states of the U.S.)
Infilitrating cells would probably be more of a terrorist/law enforcement problem than a genuinely military one. If they smuggled in nuclear weapons and set them off at just the right (or wrong) times and places, they could do tremendous damage. On the other hand, during the Cold War a lot of expense and effort was expended in insuring that the U.S. would be difficult to “decapitate” by a sudden nuclear attack. Also, intercontinental invasions are really hard to do. Both during the Gulf War and now, it’s taken the U.S. months to build up forces in the Middle East to the point of being ready to wage a full-scale war, and we have technical capabilities for that sort of thing that really no one else has. (And this time around we also have a lot of heavy equipment–tanks and so forth–pre-positioned in the Middle East.)
The Geneva Convention recognizes as legitimate combatants “[m]embers of other militias and members of other volunteer corps, including those of organized resistance movements, belonging to a Party to the conflict and operating in or outside their own territory, even if this territory is occupied, provided that such militias or volunteer corps, including such organized resistance movements, fulfil the following conditions: (a) That of being commanded by a person responsible for his subordinates; (b) That of having a fixed distinctive sign recognizable at a distance; © That of carrying arms openly; (d) That of conducting their operations in accordance with the laws and customs of war”. (Whether or not this would be recognized by a hypothetical foreign invander of the U.S. mainland is another question.) Also, officially speaking all able-bodied male U.S. citizens between the ages of 17 and 45 are members of the “unorganized militia” (13 U.S.C. 311).
OK, let’s look around at who has the best chance. Not who might do it, cause these particular folks are not going to do it. But, Suppose the entire British Commonwealth of Nations decides, Damnit, that whole 1814 thing still pisses us off.
Now, between the UK, Canada, and Australia you got a formidable special ops force. Serious folks. The know all about our military deployments, and they are genuine ass kickers, every damned one of them. There is no doubt just these guys alone can make day one of the great invasion of America a real pain in the ass for our military. They can walk around in the US pretty much undetectable up to time zero. And then they can pretty much blow the crap out of the most important transportation and communication nexii all at about the same time. After that, of course, they are toast. We have some fairly serious folks ourselves, you know.
OK, now the Canadian border is a trivial point of entry for a very large force of English speaking guys who change into uniforms that morning, and fall in on the Great March Southward. Buffalo is history. Ditto most of North Dakota, and the entire St. Lawrence River. Seattle is in enemy hands within the day. Supply lines are still very short for the Brits, and Naval exercise is limited to running the hell away from anything close to a superior force. This can go on for a few days.
But after sundown, there is a change in the weather. The US military can be surprised. Anyone can be surprised. But there are depths to our military readiness that are not apparent in simple military unit deployment. The National Guard doesn’t need to be called up to defend the state in which it serves. That happens that day. It isn’t universally successful in the combat zone itself. But the Iowa National Guard can kick some serious ass, if it has twelve hours to get it’s shit together. So to does the Alabama National Guard, the Ohio . . . well, you get the picture. These folks don’t need nukes. They have strike aircraft, helicopters, tanks, APC’s and lots of nifty equipment, all lovingly maintained by weekend warriors who want more than anything in the world to kick some invader ass.
And they also have B1 bombers. We could drop bombs on London starting about two days after the invasion starts. We could make the Blitz look like a small light show. What we did to Iraq, during the last war was restrained by a desire not to inflict unnecessary casualties upon the population. I doubt we would feel that constraint after the invasion of our country. And it would go on for a very long time, if necessary, as the US Navy finally got into action. Noting moves on the sea after day three, unless we say so. And we say not. Now the dropping of bombs is pretty much a non stop thing, and the war of invasion takes on some very defensive character.
Yeah, the entire British Commonwealth has the strategic placement, and military expertise to launch a savage, and perhaps even initially successful invasion of the US. But it doesn’t matter at all, because it could never effectively disarm the US in enough time to prevent our non nuclear response from causing much more devastation wherever we wished.
Of course there is also one other thing. The one possible military force that could do this happens to be the one military force least likely to do so. In the real world the Canadians are going to be cruisin’ across our “undefended” boarder to kick the feet out from under whoever it was that did invade us. We aren’t just allies. We are as close as it gets to being sister nations. Britain and the US have a “Special Relationship” that gets capital letters in diplomatic news. The Australians don’t want to invade the US.
And, of course, the asshole that invades England now days will find the Yanks aren’t coming, they’re already here. And they’re really pissed.
China? China doesn’t have the naval assets to invade Taiwan! Are you serious? China could mount an invasion of any country that borders it. A serious military threat, and a possible quick strike victory in most cases, except India, and The Russian Federation. In both those cases, it turns into an extremely ugly war, where wave attacks are meaningless, except as population control methods. Modern warfare is not fought with huge masses of foot soldiers advancing on fixed emplacements. That’s suicide.
Either of those enemies would probably go nuclear in a heartbeat. In fact, of all the major nuclear capable powers, the British and the US are the only ones who probably would not go nuke if invaded, as a matter of course.
Now, ask what would happen after a successful invasion of any currently nuclear capable nation.
Tris
“Victorious warriors win first and then go to war, while defeated warriors go to war first and then seek to win.” ~ Sun-tzu ~
As Ogre pointed out, as long as we have our 18 Trident submarines (each with more firepower than all the firepower in the history of warfare up to this point combined) on patrol in undisclosed locations, nobody would be able to win a war against the US. Those subs, more than anything, are the single factor which makes any attack against the USA (with the purpose of taking over) impossible. The fast attack subs would also make a successful invasion by sea quite unlikely.
Not unless we were halfway into a major world war. A sneak attack involving a million troops wouldn’t be possible but overthrowing a small section, then using that to set up camp for an attack would be.
Then again, Calculus, if we’re so stretched thin that we can’t defend our own borders, who is going to be so unscathed that they can project an invasion force?
Okay! What would happen after a successful invasion of any currently nuclear capable nation?
What are you kiding? We aren’t France you know.
This is a good starting point for anyone who wants to crunch the numbers of what happens when all the nuclear nations drink the Kool Aid at the same time.
Consider the submarine deterrent before undertaking any offensive action against the US.
Well, I assume they’d have to hit military targets for that to happen, and with the assests you’d need, you’d have a better chance of getting caught through sheer number of operatives. Some get caught, increased terror alert, and then
Well, at least in some cities, in that sitatuation, I can easily envision gun sales going through the roof at local gun shops, wal-mart, etc. Assuming these gun shops aren’t raided or start giving some away for free, that is. That or you’ll find out that your next door neighbor has a small rifle collection and probably wouldn’t mind loaning you one of his to help defend the neighborhood/apartment block.
Snipers are a barrel of fun to deal with during an invasion, and really the only way to fight them without slowing down is airstrikes/artillery bombardments on the suspected area.
crap, I meant
quote:
Originally posted by Persephone
Question 2: Would an invasion of the US that began from within our borders, but was completed by outside forces, be possible? For instance, the Al-Quaida (sp?) cells that have been found here–say something like that managed to cripple us just enough to allow outside military forces to hurl themselves in.
Well, I assume they’d have to hit military targets for that to happen, and with the assests you’d need, you’d have a better chance of getting caught through sheer number of operatives. Some get caught, increased terror alert, and then it’s gonna be harder to blow up a military facility without getting horribly killed in the process.
Sure, you can blow up highways/bridges, but that’s gonna inhibit the invasion force.
Partisan activity would be an absolute nightmare for an invading force in the US. Enemy encampments would be taking long range small arms fire constantly.
It wouldn’t take much on our part to make every inch of ground in a major city cost an invader dearly.
If I saw an invader troop formation trotting down the block 1/4 mile away, it would be little problem to empty a magazine from a handgun in their direction in a few seconds then run and hide, I might even hit one.
Hundreds of people in a city doing this at random to enemy units would be devastating both in morale and casualties.
A few people with the right info could calibrate scopes for 800 or so meters and suddenly every residential rooftop is a potential sniper position. The shot doesn’t even have to hit a given soldier…as long as it keeps him worried.
I forgot who said it…but the value of a partisan is not in how many of the enemy he kills, but in the number he keeps watching for him.
Remember the american people tends to deify the rebel and the underdog charachters. Everyone with a gun will be looking for the chance to use it against the evil invading army…
A .308 with a high-power hunting scope would make things horrific for an invading force, and since every deer hunter in America is packing that much firepower (not to mention the fact that ammunition grows on freaking trees), life would get difficult fast.
Hell, even a can-plinker of a .22 with a scope would be deadly (and one hell of a lot quieter) and every kid has one of those.
Not to mention shotguns. There are a lot of those. Partisans winging slugs at you - that would suck.
Gotta carpet bomb the cities then…
Umm… MEBuckner, since when did we have spy satellites in the 1940s? It was a lot easier for Yamamoto to dodge US intelligence back then, and therefore he could’ve messed with the US coastline after Pearl Harbor. What did they do? They went after Midway. They failed miserably to take down a single US carrier, and they failed to change naval codes after they had been broken. Japanese = stupid.
Like I said though, you guys are just like “oh yea, well the US army is soooooooooo great, that it’ll never happen…”, “…spy satellites…”
Yea, a full scale invasion is not very feasible, but you are just dismissing it as impossible based on your assumptions as to how strong the US military is. I think it’s pretty arrogant and stupid to think that the Fast attack submarines automatically produce less sound than the surrounding water. Let’s think about this. Unless the Navy has secretely developed and deployed a new propulsion system, and somehow made stealth submarines, there is no way that subs are impossible to detect. Even if you can’t hear them, active sonar will pick them up bright as day. And subs are a lot, lot easier to sink with air support, and fast escort ships, then it might be assumed. Another issue. What good is the most advanced airforce to date, if all of your planes are destroyed while on ground?
During the Cold War, the Pentagon ran a series of simulations, AKA war games, concerning a potential invasion of the United States by the USSR. Some of their predicitons indicated that the Air force would be completely * annihilated within thirty days.*
Once the air force falls, there is no hope for your army, because simply put, the one who controlls the skies, controls the war. A lesson learned the hard way.
While I realize that in the modern era, it would be very unlikely that a full scale invasion of the United States would occur, the OP’s question was whether it was possible, not feasible. It’s pretty feasible until you reach the South, where dem Rednecks be.
You rented Red Dawn this weekend, didn’t you?