Ew
I wish I could find a link to this, but you’re just going to have to trust me. It was something I heard on NPR yesterday, where they were discussing this very subject. There was someone who was, I think, a law enforcement official being interviewed who basically said (paraphrasing):
One thing that is happening after these recent attacks is that the news coverage is intense over the first 24-48 hours, and that’s when we have the least amount of information about the attackers. Often, there seems to little if any ties to radical Islamist groups. It’s only after weeks or even months that we are able to trace the connections and learn how the attackers were indeed radicalized, and to figure out the connections they did have to various Islamist groups. But then if the story gets reported at all, it’s on page 17 of the paper.
Good point. It’s a hijack. But I’m not sure it’s a relevant question. Some are radicalized Muslims some are misfits. It’s not a black and white world. Some, like the Orlando shooter, were probably going to find a good excuse to go kill a lot of people anyway. His profile and the profile of the guy in Arora Colorado and the guy in Newtown CT are shockingly similar. It’s just in Orlando he decided that he would use Islam as his excuse. Much the way that abortion clinic attacks or the murder of Matthew Sheppard used Christianity as an excuse. It’s unfortunate that things like that happen when there are actually dangerous organizations that are actually radicalized Islam (like ISIS) and so everyone gets confused. But ISIS isn’t representative of Islam as a whole and we make things harder on ourselves as a society if we don’t draw a distinction between random crazy people and people working for ISIS.
Not all people who went to communist rallys were working for the USSR. Attacking all potential communists as though they were all Russian spys was harmful to our country. I don’t really see how this is different in a meaningful way.
Lots of people are crazy. We have had a huge number of mass shootings in the states . Most were not by Muslims. We have a mass shooting problem we are ignoring. Treating Orlando as different hurts us. France, I don’t know enough about France to say what is happening there. But I know that one of Bin Laden’s stated objectives was to make the west so afraid of Islam that all western Muslims had no choice but to join him. Painting all of Islam with the same brush is actually literally helping terrorists. They use our prejudice as a weapon against us.
Sooo…how many abortion clinics are there in the Islamic world? How many bars…gay or otherwise? How many avant garde types who make art or write books featuring Allah or Mohammed?
While I appreciate the intent, I don’t think it really matters for this argument. The truth is I don’t know. I would guess you don’t either. But my point was that people say Christian culture isn’t violent only Muslim culture is and that all Christian acts of violence are ancient history. They aren’t. When was the last IRA bombing? How many people are killed by the KKK? I don’t recall, but I’m fairly certain Tim McVeigh was a Christian. Attaching the violence to Islam rather than to specific regimes and individuals prevents us from seeing clearly.
Here is the Democrat’s newest celebrity, Khizr Khan, saying, “these folks have nothing to do with Islam.” It’s like he provided the quote word-for-word just for this discussion.
I wasn’t aware that the murderers of Matthew Shepherd used Christianity as an excuse. I thought it was a drug deal gone wrong. Do you have a cite?
Regards,
Shodan
Edit: crap, I misread your cite. Consider my ignorance fought. I disagree with both him and Obama, but think the disagreement is semantic more than anything else.
My only cite is that I briefly dated a girl who went to high school with all the people involved and still lived in town when the murder happened. So, anecdote not data.
Feel free to mentally replace his murder with some other murder or even just a beating at the hands of the “God hates fags” brigade.
Misinformation can spread like wildfire in a high school. Six years ago my wife, who is a teacher, had a brain hemorrhage and was out for the remainder of the school year. Even though I worked in the same school, and kept everyone updated on her condition, a good percentage of her students though she’d died and reacted like they’d seen a ghost when she came back.
There are plenty of radical imams out there, both in the West and in the Arab world, only to eager to inspire their young acolytes to deeds of terror. Sure, some terrorists are lone wolves, but there are many connected extremists too.
No, he was a radicalized agnostic.
Regards,
Shodan
No, they aren’t because Christianity has evolved past all these things while Islamic countries actively try to reproduce 1338th century mores and ethics.
:smack: The same stupid fallacy over and over and over… Tim McVeigh never claimed to be bombing a building FOR JESUS, was never radicalized by a Christian priest, and was never indoctrinated into a branch of Christianity that explicitly claimed the right to perpetrate violence on behalf of Christianity.
I am so sick of people trying to draw an equivalency here. Being Christian and committing terrorism is NOT the same as committing terrorism BECAUSE OF Christianity. And of those who do commit terrorism BECAUSE of Christianity, they are neither as numerous nor as violent as Islamic jihadists. Not even close.
Please don’t hijack this thread with, ‘but the Christians did/do it too’. There’s a million other threads where you can discuss that argument until you’re blue in the face, but it has no relevence here, thanks.
I was responding to a specific post and that is getting lost in the quoting. Islam is not a monolith and neither is Christianity. Other than refuting that specific claim that Christians are not violent anymore (abortion clinic attacks, 40+ since 1990, seem to refute that but whatever) ita not important that “Christians do it too” the point is people do it. Pick your reasons. People find reasons to kill people.
They don’t seem to be too keen on getting their 72 virgins though…
Of course they’re not. We all know that. As I said, I was objecting to the idea that it was only Muslims that engaged in religious violence today.
I am fine with the term “radicalized Muslim,” except that I think “radical” isn’t such a bad thing normally :). I’d rather talk about “terrorist Islam” as a subset of Islam, or “death cult Islam” as mostly the same subset (a lot of what ISIL does isn’t terrorism, but it’s still death-culty).
Edit: Oh, and FYI today Obama in his press conference said (according to CSPAN’s transcript, with one spelling correction):
“IN ORDER FOR US TO ULTIMATELY WIN THIS FIGHT, WE CANNOT FRAME THIS AS A CLASH OF CIVILIZATIONS TO BETWEEN THE WEST AND ISLAM. THAT PLAYS EXACTLY INTO THE HANDS OF AND ISIL AND THE PERVERSE INTERPRETATIONS OF ISLAM THEY’RE PUTTING FORWARD.”
So you can see that he’s backed away from the “not Muslim” account of ISIL and is instead talking about a “perverse interpretation of Islam,” which is pretty much exactly how I’d put it.
I think many are speaking out of sheer delusion when they suggest that these terrorists, after deciding they are going to commit violence and plan out the details ahead of time, suddenly at the last minute just decide “Hey I’m gonna scream Allahu Akbar just for shits and giggles.”
…these people are inspired by a radicalized interpretation of Islam. They are radicalized Muslims. Get over it.
Well that’s my point. Of course many are radical Islamic jihadists, carrying out a holy war against the infidels.
But it seems to me that there are an increasing number of angry young men who, in a desire to go out in a blaze of glory, jump upon the jihadi bandwagon as a way to rationalize their desire to kill. That they happen to be Muslim or from a Muslim background seems almost incidental.
And for every attack that is publicised as being carried out by a ‘radicalized Islamist’, there’s an 18 year old spotty kid in Sydney, or London, or Boston watching the news and plotting his opportunity to be noticed by the world in a similar way. But he’s not a radicalized Muslim, not really.