According to the big 4, (Am Ex , Visa , Mastercard, and Discover ), they do not specify that the cashier is required to keep the card if you refuse to produce ID for an unsigned card…it doesn’t mean they CAN’T though. All 3 just say to refuse the sale.
In fact, all except American Express also have something called a “Code 10 authorization”-(here are Visa’s instructions). If the cashier is suspicious of fraud, they call the card company & ask for a code 10–“If the operator asks you to retain the card, comply with this request only if it is safe to do so”.
So yes, yes they can try to keep “your” card if you act weird enough-- as stated before though, it ain’t really yours, it’s the bank’s/cc company’s.
[conjecture]
If you just snatched the card back, you may risk having the cops called on ya, and look like an ass for not giving ID, but the cashier won’t get in trouble at all. If you battered the poor cashier to get it back, you’d be the one going to the pokey, and deservedly so.
[/conjecture]
Yes, because (1) it is not your card, it belongs to the issuer and (2) the issuer has authorised the merchants to be its agents.
So yes, they can take it if they have a valid reason and trying to snatch it back would be extremely stupid and a way to get charged with assault. If you have a problem with them then call the police as they are sure to do with you.
Several posts say that my credit card isn’t literally mine, it belongs to the bank, the credit card company or the like.
I am not completely sure, but I tend to disagree. I have read through all the legal papers I have signed in order to get the credit card, and nowhere does it say that the card itself remains the property of the bank (or the credit card company). So in the absence of any further agreement, either explicit or implicit, handing over an item to somebody else usually makes this person the owner of the item. I have been handed over the credit card, so I consider myself the owner of it.
True, there is the bank logo on it, but that does not mean anything. There is a Sony logo on my computer monitor, but it is still mine.
Having said that, I still think using any kind of force, even slight, to get the card back would be disproportionate, as long as the clerk shows no sign of running away or hiding from you and the police. So if you want to take action, call the police to sort that out.
It may not be ok for the clerk to keep the card if you demand it back (all they may be allowed to do is warn you they suspect you of fraud and will call the police), but if they do, they may have an excuse by saying they have been instructed to do just that and they were following orders. After all, they did not hurt anyone and property can be given back.
Every credit card contract I have ever seen, in the USA and in Europe, states that the card remains the property of the issuer and I would be very surprised if it was otherwise. MartinL are you sure of that? Can you tell us what card and what issuing bank? It would be simple enough to contact them and find out. At any rate, laws vary with jurisdiction and I believe the OP is in the USA.
Definitely, the contract itself does not say anything about whose property the card is, but it references some terms and conditions for credit cards and some for the bank in general, where it says that any card, checque, even letters, whatever, … issued by the bank remains their property. I only checked the contract at first.
The following may not apply to the case described in the initial post, but if you manage to grab your card back while it is in nobody’s hand (else an assault), you may use this argument for keeping it:
Still, if I am not the proprietor of the card, I am the holder, and it is illegal for any person to seize an item from the holder, even for the proprietor (except when immediately struggling with a thief). They need to have some official do it if the holder does not comply, either the police or even a judge, otherwise it is an assault.
I would also doubt if ANY sales person in any store who handles my credit card acts on behalf of the credit card company. Personally, I prefer to use my credit card only where I do not have to let go control over it. I would insert the card into the card reader, sign the receipt and show them the back of the card so they can check the signature.
They are not authorized to use force to take the card from you but if it is in their possession and they are acting as agents of the owner then they have all the right in the world to keep it. There is no doubt about that.
>> I would also doubt if ANY sales person in any store who handles my credit card acts on behalf of the credit card company.
On what basis do you doubt that? Have you read the merchant’s contract? Have you read the thread? On what do you base your doubt?
If you’re talking about fraudulent credit cards – say home made ones if you’re technologically capable of that, then that card *is]/i] yours since you have no contract with the bank that you’re defrauding. But then you have bigger things to worry about.
All I meant was, not everybody laying hand on my card automatically becomes an agent of the credit card company, getting the right to withhold it upon expressing any doubts about me being entitled to use it.
I will try to check my English before hitting the “Submit” button in future, I promise.
The bank can request that the merchant confiscate the card.
Most banks will simply deny the transaction and advise the merchant to follow their store policy - the bank does not want to put the cashier at risk of being hurt.
As for the signing of the card, the cardmember agreement and the card itself clearly state that the card is not valid unless signed. If the cardmember wants to, they can add “check id” but not use it as a substitute.
Any transaction with the card being swiped requires that the signature be verified against the card per the V/M merchant agreement. Nowadays, a lot of merchants skip that step to make the lines go quicker - placing sales over security. When I worked retail, I was advised to not verify signatures because it was “time consuming”. Not surprisingly, I see a lot of fraud charges at those merchants and because they violated the agreement, they get charged back - losing the money.
If your card is held by the cahier I would call the manager over first before getting the police involved. If the manager cant straighten it out have them contact the cops. Youll get a better response this way and you may get the thing resolved by the manager sans police.
On the back of my Amex card is stamped, "This card is the property of Amex Bank of Canada and must be returned upon request. / Cette carte est la propriété de la Banque Amex du Canada, et doit être retournée sur demande. That’s pretty definite. If the merchant is acting as the agent of the issuer, it makes sense that he or she could retain the card.
Say what? You mean a US debit card can be used at the point-of-sale terminal without a PIN??? In Canada, the money-machine (ATM) network and the point-of-sale-terminal network are run by the same people, and are standardised and nationwide. You use the same PIN at both.
Yep. those bearing the Visa or Mastercard logo can be used just like a credit card, with the signature being sufficient proof of ownership. Many (but not all) establishments will ask if the card is credit or debit, and if you answer “debit”, the PIN is required.
I work at a record store, and I very rarely check the signature…because I ALWAYS check an I.D.
If someone’s signed card is stolen the thief could easily get away with it if he can replicate the signature that he has a sample of…unless his I.D. is checked.
Anyhow, I have an unfortunate condition where my handwriting-including my signature-changes a bit after awhile…therefore at times my signatures won’t match.
I put “Check I.D.” on the back of my card, and have never had a problem…mainly because most clerks are too lazy to check ANYTHING.
But if you ever do have a problem you may find that you have little protection because by not signing the card you have broken the card issuer’s agreement. If you had signed it, you would have zero liability. So what would you and others who proudly claim your use of “check ID” prefer: zero liability because you have signed the card, or a false illusion of security because you have not?
A couple of times recently, I’ve been asked for ID when using my (signed) Visa card. I thought that merchants weren’t supposed to do that, but I can’t find anything about it on the Visa site. Does anyone have any info about this?
And if she hadn’t compared them? Would you then be telling us that after all that she didn’t even check the sigs? Probably. :rolleyes:
Peace,
mangeorge
Okay, that makes more sense: the debits are going through the credit-card system rather than a separate debit-card system. And are these the cards referred to as ‘check cards’?
This also would solve one problem of mine: I have no personal credit card, but occaisionally would like to order something online. The banks I’ve asked do not have credit-card-branded debit cards, or prepaid debit cards. This I am unable to order anything online.