I grew up in a Nationalist/Republican area of Northern Ireland, while a United Ireland was a generally popular goal it always seemed to me to be a long way off and very unlikely indeed. However with the shake-up after the Brexit vote, with 56% of the population of Northern Ireland voting to remain in the EU, and Unionism losing a majority for the first time in the history of the state in recent local elections there is a sense that it may not be so implausible after all:
Gerry Adams seems to think so, though he would say that anyway.
So what do people think, is it achievable, and if so is it desireable? What would be the best method to get the Unionist population ‘on side’ and agree, or at least not violently disagree, that their future would be best served by joining with the Republic of Ireland?
I’ve never been there.
But a few years ago I saw video from there, and part of what it took to bring “peace *” there, including tall concrete walls dividing Protestant from Catholic sections of the same neighborhood.
I suspect it’ll take at least a few generations more; until the bloodshed is gone from living memory.
some say peace is more than just the absence of war
While I think Brexit will be a disaster for the UK, I still think a Brexit weakened UK will be a far stronger economy than the Republic of Ireland. So, Northern Ireland is better off as part of the UK.
The Republic of Ireland is much less “Catholic” than it was 20 or probably even 10 years ago, let alone 40. (I don’t know if the north is any less religious). So at least on one side the religious antagonism is much less intense than it used to be.
Um, the ROI had one of the worlds highest per capital incomes a couple years ago (higher than the US, IIRC).
I support brexit but I’m pretty sure it will hurt Britain somewhat in terms of GDP, in the short to medium term, so Ireland might well end up richer. Even if not, under what possible scenario would Britain be “far richer” than Ireland?
As a general rule, “united we stand, divided we fall”.
Exceptions include Greece in the E.U.
Greece never met the E.U. membership requirements in the first place, and should never have been allowed into the E.U.
But the U.S. powerhouse economy isn’t due to any one of our 50 States.
It’s due to our union of the 50 States. We are stronger as a team.
That is so militarily.
That is so economically.
That is so politically.
It’s quite remarkable how establishment ROI politicians and pundits are now talking about reunification as a realistic prospect. I still suspect it’s rather unlikely in the near future, but then again, a year ago nobody really believed that Brexit and President Trump would happen, either.
If Scotland goes independent, as does seem reasonably likely, then all bets are off.
My bet would be that Scotland and NI remain within the UK. Economic & sectarian factors will probably prevail but the possibility of a UK break-up has certainly increased since Brexit.
Britain is already, and has always been, far richer than Ireland. It’s not some dastardly English plot, over the generations ( not that their 18th/19th century policies to Catholics helped, and just after Ireland had emerged from tribalism… ) just geography. Faraway places on the edge aren’t in trade routes and don’t possess a lot of natural resources.
Anyway, the economic concentration is misplaced; most Irish Nationalists beyond the centre of shifty politics would have preferred an Ireland Free and dirt-poor to the extreme to continued union *.
And why shouldn’t they ? Much as with the USA’s example where they could have continued with the lowest taxes in the world, no war, and very little interference in their affairs from government, but they struck out boldly in order to create a new mythology that would comfort their self-importance and provide patriotic fodder for their politicians to use in their speechifying. The heart wants what the heart wants — just as with the Taliban or ISIS. Economics doesn’t feed the soul.
This was helped by the fact that until the 20th century the struggles for independence were mostly led by local aristocrats who certainly wouldn’t go hungry in any new dispensation.
But exactly the same applies to America and Poland.
The U.K. unity is national, “political” if you will.
But the idea of the E.U. was to create an economic titan that would the U.S.
The U.S., fifty separate States, has its own unified currency, the familiar “green-back” $dollar, the de facto standard currency for international trade of such commodities as crude oil.
It might have leveraged the European (economic) Union’s standing if the Euro had displaced the U.S. $dollar as a global standard.
But rather than strengthening, the E.U. seems to be fragmenting.
To U.S. citizens, a “united Ireland” (the topic question) might seem like a Disney idea (happy ending).
But for the reasons already posted it’s unlikely.
What I’d like to know:
is it possible / likely a cooperation standard can be implemented that will accord the Irelands the economic benefits of unity, without the socio-political complications?
The rust-belt has undergone not merely industrial disintegration, but an attendant industry of human spirit.
I’ve only been to the great Southeast once in the past 6 months.
But perhaps some of the most interesting things I noticed were not the things that were there, but the things that weren’t.
Perhaps the most conspicuous absence, any Southern drawl.
I spent some time with a Southern belle while there. She had all the grace and charm you’d expect. But judging by the way she spoke, she might as well have been from New York.
That’s what EU membership more or less did, and one of the reasons why people in Ireland are so concerned about the possibility of Brexit restoring a “hard border” in Ireland.
(I’d dispute the idea that the EU was created with the prime purpose of becoming an economic giant to compete with the US: the aim always was to promote economic and social integration so as to secure peace in Europe, above all between France and Germany, and part of that was acting together as far as possible to maximise joint economic strength in external negotiations with economic partners and competitors).
but an attendant disintegration of industry of human spirit in the rust-belt.
It’s an intended reference to a human spirit of compulsive productivity, for which the North was known a half century ago, but which seems to have migrated to the great Southeast.
Economics and religion are unimportant. NI won’t be joining the ROI without significant demographic change, at which point the ROI would end up with an armed and surly minority who regard themselves as having been given into foreign capitivity.
