In fact, doesn’t that sort of casual separation between “Muslim” and “European” reflect a kind of racism in the countries where it exists?
I certainly think so.
Similarly I’m always bothered how reports on France or Germany regularly use the phrase “immigrants” to refer to people who’ve lived there for two or three generations.
Exactly. At the point where you’re reduced to arguing that second-or-third generation Europeans don’t count because they happen to be Muslim, it’s pretty clear that you’re offering up a somewhat unsavory dodge rather than a cogent analysis.
I think the law might have changed recently, but in Germany not long ago they were not even citizens, German citizenship passing by jus sanguinis (“right of blood”, i.e., German-citizen parents or ethnic-German parents) rather than by jus soli (“right of soil”, i.e., birth in the country, as in the U.S.).
There are two very distinct areas in which the ADL operates.
In one, advocacy, they can’t be trusted, because constantly issuing warnings about the “alarming rise of antisemitism” is what they do- after all, they’ve got to keep the donations coming.
In the other, research, they absolutely can be trusted. It’s not an exaggeration to say that the ADL is the most trustworthy source of data on racism in the US.
It’s like a news organization; you have to ignore the editorials, but you can pretty much believe whatever they are reporting as hard news.
Now, I don’t know how the ADL operates overseas, and how closely its various international branches are linked, so take everything I just said with a grain of salt.
Dershowitz uses the antisemitism card all the time. the most famous recent example was this one :
A paper discussing the Israel lobby and its influence in America written by two harvard professors saw them absolutely castigated by exactly the same scumbags who are now throwing sewerage at Norway.
I can’t be arsed to look through the archives of some random wingnut blogger for something similar but the fact that he’s accusing norway of being antisemitic says it all.
OK then, let’s say that kids from recent immigrants from Muslim/Arab nations hold views which are anti-Israel and antisemitic. But they’re a tiny subset of actual Norwegians/Europeans and it’s just silly to try and claim that the views of this group are representative of Europeans/Norwegians as a whole.
Nonoby is singling out Israel. Refugees from Arab countries are almost unanimously opposed to the regimes which run their countries. Who the hell is praising these countries? Israel gets criticism because it’s responsible for an ongoing almost half-century illegal occupation of another people, an occupation that the whole world sees is illegal. Obviously the longer it goes on, and the more Israel keeps illegally building on illegally occupied land, the oppression of Palestinian people, the blockade of gaza etc., the m ore criticism they’re going to get. And rightly so!
How about the 38% of all French citizens who claim French Jews are loyal to Israel than to France.
That’s an obviously anti-Semitic comment.
I assume you feel that such a statement is bigoted don’t you.
I’m also amused that after all the chest-beating you’ve done regarding the mistreatment of Muslims by Israelis you try to deny anti-Muslim racism is a problem in Europe(or at least Norway) while arguing that Muslims aren’t real Europeans.
Dick, you made a specific factual claim about Dershowitz.
You said Dershowitz
However you don’t show Dershowitz defining anyone who criticizes the Israeli government or who’s critical of the occupation or who’s pro-Palestinian as being an anti-Semite.
In fact, since Dershowitz is pro-Palestinian and favors a two-state solution it would be moronic of him to make such a claim.
Now, please show where Dershowitz makes such a claim or retract your slur.
Just thinking it through, it would be very unusual for a North American to casually make such a seperation concering Americans or Canadians.
That doesn’t mean, mind you, that Americans or Canadians aren’t bigoted. Of course some are. But it does I think point to a different sort of overall mind-set towards what it means to be a citizen. The child of an immigrant is still a Canadian in the minds of other Canadians, and what he or she does are still the acts of Canadians, even if one is bigoted against their race, ethnicity or religion.
Perhaps the surveys that show high levels of response for questions that essentially posit that Jews aren’t loyal towards the (European) country where they are nominally citizens is a reflection of that - that to the responders, the Jewish citizenry simply are not “real” citizens, in the same way that the Muslim children of immigrants are not “real” citizens. Of course, if that is one’s opinion, it is natural to assume that the “others” think similarly and are not “really” loyal (presumably to an extent this may be a self-fulfilling prophecy: if the “others” are treated as ‘not really’ citizens, they are more likely to place their loyalties elsewhere).
Maybe, but the fact that the author Jostein Gaarder could get away with this editorial and keep his reputation intact suggests that anti-Semitic sentiments aren’t only held by the children of recent immigrants. From the article:
Inn warraq, are you a Muslim? If so, why is it that so many of your posts involve defending Jews and Israel? Just curious. If you aren’t Muslim, please disregard and carry on.
Are you seriously claiming that the excerpts you cited are the proof of Jostein Gaarder being anti-semitic?
If so (and it appears you do) then it is not the case that the bar is too low – there is no bar.
If anything, this post is a proof of the way too common case of anyone criticizing state of Israel and its policies to be labelled anti-Semitic. The label has been so devalued it’s worthless.
Are you under the impression that Muslims are required to hate Israel?
That’s a truly amazing screed of ignorance and Christian prejudice (I particularly liked the attack on the “Chosen People” - that’s always the sign of someone who doesn’t have the first clue about Judaism).
I guess the issue is how well-received this was among Norweigians generally.
Woah.
The exerpts show a specifically religiously Christian attack on Israel (Mr. Gaarder is apparently unaware that the original Zionists were mostly not religious and in no way intended to establish a “kingdom of God”) and spouts very typical anti-Jewish canards, such as the swipe at the “Chosen People”.
I dunno what your bar is for anti-Semitism, but I think most would agree that this meets it.
Do you feel the need to ask Christians why they defend Jews and to ask Jews why they feel the need to defend Muslims?
No, Calling Judaism “an archaic national and warlike religion”, that Jews worship “an insatiable sadist”, that Jesus was opposed to the “Zionist terrorists”, that saying, “To act as God’s Chosen People is not only stupid and arrogant, but a crime against humanity”, wishing “May the spirit and the word blow the apartheid walls of Israel down”, and claiming “The State of Israel does not exist.” isn’t anti-semitic at all.
The entire thing is, “Gee, isn’t it a shame Judaism has made Israel so horrible? If only they would have listened to Jesus, instead. . .”
Heh, expressly calling Jews as a people “baby killers” may be a trifle harsh, but let’s not call it anti-Semitic … 