They’re not the same people. In fact there’s some tension between the two groups. The summit rioters criticize Antifa’s lack of attention to capitalism and the sociopolitical structure. But their tactics are similar and converging.
Is antifa synonymous with “alt-left”? I was surprised to hear the latter term for the first time from the Pres.
Stating the obvious, whether a group “exists” (whether or not beyond a website) says little about their responsibility for/involvement with any specific action.
When are you starting your “recent decades” clock? 'Cuz, depending on what eventsare included in your timeframe, the “left” may have a ways to go to catch up.
How is Dylann Roof “organized violence”?
I am skeptical as to whether there are any RW groups capable of violent activity on a scale that would have 200 people arrested at an inauguration, for example.
What’s the source of your claim?
The same way people injured by individual members of antifa is organized violence.
Here’s one of many recent rundowns for you. But a simple Google search will reveal lots more. It’s not a controversial claim. Here’s the GAO report mentioned in that cite.
What’s your source the people arrested at the inauguration were being violent?
I don’t know of any, but I wouldn’t consider myself an authoritative source on the subject. I usually hear about them only when they’ve been violent, which typically involves interaction with some other group.
https://static1.squarespace.com/static/54d79f88e4b0db3478a04405/t/591b3e7886e6c06246aa4c22/1494957697235/Domestic+Terrorism+-+2015-Present+-+Targets+and+Methods.pdf
https://static1.squarespace.com/static/54d79f88e4b0db3478a04405/t/591b3ebbebbd1ae30ecac316/1494957768812/Domestic+Terrorism+-+2015-Present+-+Group+vs+Group+Comparison.pdf
The New Jersey Department of Homeland Security strongly disagrees with your opinion. The attached charts show that five categories of right-wing groups are responsible for 67 incidents and 24 deaths in the period they examined beginning in 2015. Left-wing extremists, during the same period, are responsible for 14 incidents and 8 deaths.
It isn’t even really close.
My impression is they are mostly anarchists and communists, and the same kinds of people who years ago would protest the wto.
Seriously?
Here is a NYT article titled “Who Were the Counterprotesters in Charlottesville?”. At the top is a picture of some self-identified Antifa sporting long guns, and the caption says “A group of counterprotesters who identified themselves as antifa, or anti-fascists, rested during a rally of white nationalists in Charlottesville, Va. on Saturday”
I’m not sure where you are getting your numbers. Your second cite shows that Black Separatists and White Extremists responsible for roughly the same amount of violence. 12 killed and 18 wounded vs 14 killed and 15 wounded. It is true that they have recorded more incidents from White Extremists (26 to 8).
No, it’s not remotely the same. If a group of people does something as a group, that’s organized. Any particular victim might have been injured by one specific member of that group, but it’s still an activity done as a group. It’s very different than when one individual does something on his own.
This seems obvious.
None of this supports your claim.
Bottom line it appears that you’re counting all instances of individuals committing violent acts in service of RW or racist causes as “organized violence”. My statement was about violence committed by pre-existing groups of people or organizations.
The same comment applies to Ravenman’s cite.
Perhaps you should share what you mean by “organized” and why that distinction is relevant for the argument you’re making. In particular, what does it mean to engage in violence “as a group” in your view. Do other members of the group have to be present on the scene? Or just have a member who commits the act and agrees with the motivation? If that’s the distinction, it’s not at all clear to me why physical presence matters, or that you have a coherent definition that distinguishes the kind of right-wing violence in those reports from the people injured by antifa.
Look at anti-abortion groups, sovereign citizen groups, anti-government extremists, white supremacists, and militia extremists. That’s all right-wing violence, and frankly there’s bound to be some hair splitting on whether a group constitutes a militia, sovereign citizen group, or white extremists.
Then look at the left-wing groups, including black extremists, environmental groups, animal rights groups, and anarchists.
It is pretty easy to add up those numbers.
A bunch of affiliated guys communicating to each other “let’s all do such-and-such together” is an organized activity by a group. A guy walking along and seeing someone he doesn’t like and punching him in the nose is not an organized activity by a group, even if there might be many people - including some groups - in the country who dislike the same types of people.
And so what result if the affiliated guys say “let’s all go to a protest and get up in the face of right-wing people and whatever happens happens,” and one or two of them end up using violence. Is that organized violence?
And, either way, why is this distinction relevant to your larger point? If there are a hundred individuals motivated by far right ideology to commit violence crimes, why is that a smaller problem than ten individuals who go commit crimes with other guys who have tacitly agreed to the crimes?
Are “white supremacists” a group?
No, they aren’t. There are white supremacist groups, but there’s no organization called “White Supremacy”.
Antifa is not a group. It’s an ideology. And that ideology is, when Fascists try shit, you are against that.
So for instance, here’s a picture of a fairly recent antifa action where they showed up at a gathering of fascists and it quickly turned violent:
Apparently too hard for you:
Black Separatists are alone responsible for 12 deaths.
Alright, well, now I know. Thanks for the link. As I said previously, it would be more surprising if they weren’t there. I wasn’t aware they were carrying long guns at this point. This is an intolerable situation and the police need to seriously step up their game.
Off the top of my head, it depends on how much was anticipated.
What’s my larger point? I was responding to guys who said the antifa was possibly overblown in comparison to the KKK and RW organizations. I wasn’t responding to a comparison of the antifa to individual acts by racists.
The comparison is relevant because both the media and law enforcement focus on groups on an ongoing basis, while individuals become relevant only when they actually have committed some sort of crime.