Is anything due anytime soon relating to alternate ways to power vehicles, or is it all vaporware and things suitable only for niche applications? I read a lot about this stuff and it seems like nothing will be available any time soon.
Thanks for your help,
Rob
This page has a link to the list of GM vehicles available to run on E85 ethanol.
Available now.
This is a good site to see if any alternative fuel stations are nearby.
I might be in the biofuel business but don’t tell my current employer…
So interesting things happen in the ethanol industry…first ethanol was thought to be a good fuel extender - don’t want to eliminate gas all together (wont go into the oil industry ruling America etc etc). The best source for that ethanol was readily available 6-carbon sugars (glucose) because it can be fermented directly to alcohol. In the US corn is a great source of carbos with lots of glucose - so the economics made it very simple to take corn and other food stuff to make ethanol. That created the problem we have now food prices up and ethanol not being a replacement but only an extender of fuel. Economics are every thing because someone has to invest in a plant and a company and expects good return on their money.
Now we all know that trees degrade eventually so there are natural processes that will take the cellulose in trees and other woody material and break it down but how do you get that to occur fast enough and in a situation that will support alcohol production. The current technology is using purified enzymes (think Adolf’s meat tenderizer) to break down the cellulose to glucose and off we go…the only problem is that the enzymes are expensive in comparison.
This brings us up to current biotechnology trying to create a “consolidate bioprocess” that will break down cellulose and convert it to ethanol in one process either using two or more bacteria together or one super bacteria. See a company called Mascoma for a few more details (http://www.mascoma.com/).
The next question to ask is ethanol the right biofuel…“well Dig if it’s not - what is?”
I’m glad you asked … Butanol is getting a lot of attention these days (see butanol ). Also BP is trying to do butanol from sugar beets in the UK with a collaboration with Dupont.
So time and investment are still needed. The other issue is making it an affordable process. I have been involved in fund raising for a butanol venture and we have seen lots of negativity regarding biofuels. Someone will get there…
cheers
Biodiesel might have better short-term prospects than ethanol, but many of the same drawbacks. The technology already exists, using soybeans. As with corn, it’s a food crop. Research is going on to extract biodiesel from non-food crops (algae) but it’s still in the trial stage. Ramping up to commercial-scale production will take years and tons of investment.
The problem with alternative energy is it’s not a process like mechanical engineering where you discover a basic principle and then develop ways to make it more efficient and less expensive. It’s more like pharmaceuticals where you start with a promising lead, then have to work through a maze of alternatives that lead to dead ends in hopes of finding the one viable path.
Yes, but is any progress expected any time soon? I am aware of various initiatives from cellulosic ethanol to algae-based biodiesel to biocrude, etc., but is anyone anywhere predicting competitive pricing with petroleum on any of these in the near future?
Thanks for your help,
Rob
Prices of E85 are very competitive with petroleum now.
Drawbacks are availability, and the loss of fuel economy.
Fuel economy loss over gasoline can be pretty high, depending on the model.
Check out these electric vehicles coming soon or here now:
http://www.aptera.com – first sales promised later this year
http://www.vectrix.com – electric scooter available for sale now.
J.
But only in California.
That’s the problem – you can follow a promising path only to have it fall apart at a late stage.
Cellulosic ethanol has been theoretically possible for decades, and even exists on a small commercial scale right now. But it still isn’t commercially viable on the giant scale needed. Like Dig it says, research is continuing. There could be a breakthrough next week, or the current research path could fall apart next week.
Ditto with battery power. The Detroit Big 3 have been researching battery technology for at least 15 years. The big breakthrough is always just around the next corner.
So when will we have competitively priced, widely available alternatives? “A couple of years, for sure.”
I read somewhere that E85 needs to be about 30% cheaper than gasoline to make up for the loss of fuel economy. Around here, it’s about 20% cheaper, so it isn’t there yet. If we can find an alternative to corn (almost anything would be better, really, given how energy-intensive corn is to grow) then E85 would become cheap enough that you’d save money by using it. If/when the economics work out, then it will start to become widely available, as gas stations across the country say, “Man, I gotta get on this bandwagon.”
**Sweet ** I think it is a matter of definition. Define soon and define available. As a previous poster replied biodesiel is good to go - you can make in your garage if you like but that does not change the global dynamics.
One point I have heard is that the major gas supplier - your shell station, mobil etc resist putting alternative pumps under their awnings. In some places that offer E85 the E85 pump is on the edge of the lot…The gas companies say it is because they can’t warrant a product they don’t make.
(NOTE - my user name changed to protect the innocent … was dig it out of the ground now Moment Slayer.)