It’s a risk I’m willing to take.
I’d rather lose my HK-91 then live in the totalitarian, Nazi-loving, Confederate-worshipping, anti-science, pro-pollution, self-dealing, corrupt, oligarchical country that trump is trying to create.
Exactly. Do you know what I can’t wrap my head around? People who are adamantly pro-gun rights invariably talk about how it is vital for them to have assault-style weapons so that they can prevent a tyrannical government from oppressing the populace.
However, we currently have a would-be tyrannical autocrat in office right now who has swept peaceful protesters off the streets in Washington, D.C. with tear gas and batons and who is at this very moment sending jack-booted secret police to snatch people off the streets in Portland. That is on top of all that he has done to destroy the rule of law and subvert the Constitution.
So is the part about standing up to the government just an excuse?
For what it’s worth, I bought into much of this gun-rights mindset when I was younger. However, as I said upthread, my views are now more nuanced as I’ve gotten older (and hopefully wiser). For one thing, I no longer think that gun rights take precedence over all other issues.
In particular, after 3+ years of Trump in the White House, I am much more concerned about free and fair elections, a free press, and a President who puts the best interests of the country ahead of his own. IMHO, every true patriot and everyone who believes in American democracy should be doing all they can to defeat Trump and the complicit Republican party in November.
No. The privacy of the ballot effectively prevents that kind of data analysis. We intentionally make it so nobody knows how Fred or Barnie voted for sure.
One area that seems ripe for these numbers, is union household voters in the Midwest. Trump cut into the usual margin for Democrats by double digits. He even won among that demographic in Ohio.
Those voters tend to be strongly trade protectionist. They hate NAFTA and rant about trade with China. TPP was going to be a new NAFTA-like abomination. Clinton moved towards being relatively trade protectionist to defeat Sanders who more closely paralleled Trump in that area. Still it was a visible move and she had been married to the president that had inflicted NAFTA on the nation. Trump’s trade related comments were what those voter have long wanted on that aspect of foreign policy but neither party was giving.
When Obama ran against Romney there were two relatively free trading candidates on the ballot. Trade was not really an issue and union voters stayed “home” by voting for Obama. With Trump against Clinton there was a difference. That difference clearly favored Trump among many regular to lifelong Democratic voters.
How do we know that if we don’t know how each individual union member voted? We don’t. All we know is that the unions will endorse one candidate or another in a given election.
My dad was a trade union member at one time. He and his colleagues had very mixed feelings about the union and what value it brought. They certainly felt no obligation or desire to vote in line with whomever the union happened to endorse. They had their political views and voted their conscience.
A unique key can be hashed and analytics done on the demographic and voting histories. We don’t do it. I get that. But it can be done anonymously.
Trumpians would tell you that we’re a republic, not a democracy.
I have had listened to Trumpettes actually badmouth Democracy because they got it confused with Democrats.
There is now, and probably always has been, a subset of the population that is terminally hostile to democracy. Despite the existence of the Bill of Rights, was founded as an aristocratic democratic republic, and not a liberal democracy.
Many people, right or left, are comfortable with a tyrant as long as he’s a tyrant on their side. If Obama were using tear gas, batons, riot police to deal with conservatives, these 2nd-Amendment folks would be all out arming up and invoking opposition to tyranny.
Wrong again. If Obama did that, yes we would oppose those actions. What’s your point?
But …no one is having boat parades in honor of Joe Biden.
https://www.donaldjtrump.com/media/no-boat-parades-enthusiasm-for-joe-biden-is-sinking
I saw this link on Facebook, posted by a Trumper. The caption and comments mostly revolved around how whatever campaign staffer came up with this must be a subversive that wants Trump to lose.
I’m trying to remain pessimistic in order to avoid complacency, but I think his campaign strategy had gone off the rails. The overarching theme of “the USA is a dystopian hellhole and you need to elect me to fix it” loses effectiveness with all but the most cognitive dissonant when YOUR party has been in power for three years.
Maybe the time travelers finally nailed him. I’ve got this theory I float on occasion that time travelers from our distant future have come back in time to try and stop Trump, but they keep misjudging the idiocy of his base and the cupidity of the Republican leadership. But they keep on trying, in true sitcom fashion, week after week, episode after episode.
I’m not sure what you know about my privilege or if you’re just jumping to conclusions. None of this is easy for me to say. It disgusts me, frankly. None of this sits well with me at all, but I’m as disgusted about it as I am the wrongs that have been perpetuated under every president in my lifetime. People were being brutalized by cops during Obama’s tenure, too. I couldn’t afford to go to school and support my family without going into massive debt under Obama either, so what’s Biden going to do about that? But nobody owes me their vote, so why do I owe mine to anyone else? I truly believe that Biden is not capable or willing to address systemic inequities in wealth, education, and healthcare in any way that is much more than the lip service we’ve gotten from every moderate candidate that has come down the pipeline in recent history. People have suffered immensely under this shitshow administration and fewer people will suffer under the next, of that I’m for damn sure. But that doesn’t mean that people won’t suffer because the Democratic party does not have the intestinal fortitude or the Kennedyesque aspirations they abandoned decades ago to actually promote policy of substantive change on those disparities. I actually feel that my votes down ballot are way more important than that of the president although it’s now obvious how easily a despotic president can kneecap the country when he has an obsequious and unprincipled party standing with him.
But that’s my point. I don’t want to participate in a system where there are ONLY TWO choices. That, I believe, is how we ended up here. And I don’t see anything changing until we start electing people who understand that the system needs to change dramatically and are committed to implementing that change.
I don’t have any confidence that either will fix the deficiencies in our system though I do expect that Biden would be a damn sight more “presidential” which is a lot better than what we currently have. Hopefully, the Democratic party hasn’t alienated enough of the liberal electorate to prevail against the absolute worst president we’ve ever had, but if not I wonder if they get the message because apparently they missed it in 2016.
They accomplish the very purpose of a democracy in the first place. They get to say who they think is the best person for the job. Is it really democracy if we’re told who we HAVE to vote for otherwise the vote “doesn’t count”? It counts if it was counted; you’re not guaranteed your guy will win or that anyone else sees what you see in your guy. That’s not how it works.
As long as people are being told that nothing can change and they believe it, nothing will change. A self-fulfilling prophecy is an electorate that votes for a major party when they prefer a third-party candidate. I believe that an honorable vote is an honest one.
I will share with you one thing that could turn the tide for me. If Biden were to come out strongly for ranked choice voting and committed to doing everything he could to see it implemented in federal elections, I’d vote for him in a heartbeat. Because that’s probably the only way we emerge with a more varied political landscape that better represents what everyone wants and not just what they deserve. It’s the only we get a congress that isn’t a slave to the tyranny of bipartisanship.
Isn’t this the very definition of strawman argument? Who’s asking for perfect? I just want a guy who wants to bring the U.S. into the 21st century with a decent healthcare system that cannot be unraveled as easily as Obamacare is and who recognizes that reversing the perpetually growing wealth gap is the only answer to achieving real equity of opportunity across race and class. I don’t see that in Biden.
I want an end to kids in cages, deliberate separation of families, incompetence with COVID, etc. I do see that in Biden. Apparently those kids and families harmed by this stuff aren’t very important to you.
And I want a pony.
The ACA is imperfect and the Republicans have been trying to repeal it since day one. It’s still in place. Which is a testament to the fact that it has not been ‘easy to unravel’, as you suggest. Biden thinks the ACA is “big fucking deal” and is committed to enhancing it. So I don’t know what you’re talking about when you say that Biden is lacking in that specific issue that is clearly as important to you as it is to millions of others (myself included).
You’re not looking hard enough.
Perhaps you can reconsider your view of Biden as the destination but just one small step in the journey towards a more just society.
Well put.
I second Brown_Eyed_Girl’s call for ranked choice voting. First past the post is about the worst system we can use in multi-candidate elections.
I also agree that FPTP is a horrible electoral system and is the cause of so many problems in the US. However, this election in particular is the absolute stupidest time to send a message about how much FPTP sucks.
Yes, it should be all hands to the pumps in November.
I feel your frustration, Brown_Eyed_Girl. You have every reason to be frustrated, not just at Trump but at the system.
I would still urge you to vote for Biden, imperfections, warts, and all. It’s true that you don’t necessarily have the choices you want with the current slate of parties and candidates, but the truth is, our own democracy’s never promised slates of good candidates or the full range of candidates. It’s a somewhat closed system relative to other democracies that offer multi-party systems. Think of it like going to a restaurant. You can “choose” what you want to eat but your choices are limited to what’s on the menu. And unfortunately, it’s the only restaurant in town and there’s no way to cook the meal yourself in this case. Not ideal, but better than starving, I guess.
But not participating will not give you more choices; rather, it will likely give you fewer options over the longer term. That’s because it will incentivize Republicans to continue the gamesmanship of political obstruction. Republicans represent the interests of aristocracy. Although it’s true that there are some Democrats, including Biden, Schumer, and others, who have taken big money from big special interests, the party as a whole is much more inclusive, and it is more representative as a part of the cross-section of America’s demography and interests than the mostly white (and often male) Republican party. That alone should make them the better option, not to say that whites are evil (I’m white and male myself), but that a party of white men that runs on whiteness isn’t going to represent the interests of all America as much as a party that comes from different backgrounds.
If you sit out, you’re encouraging senators like McConnell to block healthcare and tax reform because even if Biden wins he won’t have the kind of mandate that he would have if he were to win in dominant fashion. And before people pile on Obama and how he failed to live up to his promises, let’s forget that despite healthcare reform and a stimulus bill that reversed our economic decline, he was stripped of legislative support in 2010, which hobbled his ability to do anything thereafter. This happened in no small part because those who supported his white house run in 2008 sat out in 2010. If you want more progress and more democracy, more participation is required, not less.