Is baseball ready for an openly gay star player.

Great Debates
1

Listening to ESPN radio on the way to lunch, Dan Patrick brought up this question and thought it would be an interesting debate. His thought is that no, baseball is not ready. His claim is, while they will be accepted in large part by the players, the fans would not be ready for this. He thinks that the fans would be merciless in other towns and if the player was in a slump or struggling, even the home fans would show their intolerant side. Mr. Patrick also claimed that if a player did come out, he would have a harder time with acceptance and have to over come more than Frank Robinson did when he broke the color barrier.

For the most part, I agree with him. I don’t see the fans being accepting of an openly gay star player. I can also see where he would be given a hard time by certain players in the locker room. But I’m not so sure if I would go as far as comparing it to Frank Robinson’s situation.

So, is baseball (players and fans) ready for an openly gay star? And can you compare that to Frank Robinson’s struggle?

2

Umm… you mean JACKIE Robinson?

On a more serious note, my cynical view is… it depends on just HOW good the guy in question is. I mean, I’ve seen idiotic sportsl fans give standing ovations to scummy, (presumably) straight guys like Cesar Cedeno (a murderer), Quintin Dailey (a rapist), Lawrence Phillips (a woman-beating sociopath), Steve Howe (who snorted coke in the dugout during games), Darryl Strawberry, Dave “I Thought That Hooker Was a Woman, Honest!” Stewart, Pete Rose, and so many others, I imagine even homophobic fans could bring themselves to cheer for a gay player if he were a superstar who could bring them a championship.

But the affection would be shallow. What can I compare it to… well, Jackie Robinson had many admirers, and commanded much respect, but you’ll search in vain for ANY fan who loved him. A gay baseball superstar would be in the same position as, say, BArry Bonds or Albert Belle. He’d get plenty of applause from his hometown fans, so long as he was hitting home runs and winning ballgames… but I don’t see any fans really taking him into their hearts.

3

Frank Robinson did not break the color line; JACKIE Robinson did. (Frank was, however, the first black manager.)

I think Dan Patrick is exactly, 100% wrong; the fans would be relatively accepting, but the players probably wouldn’t be. I have no doubt some fans would be terrible abusive to an openly gay player, but

  1. Such fans are terribly abusive already, so nothing would really change,
  2. This sort of thing is generally falling out of favor in public; if someone were to yell “You no-good faggot!” I have little doubt a lot of surrounding patrons would turn on them and ask security to throw them out. In a practical sense I doubt anyone could get away with being overtly abusive in person, and the fan mail is screened now.
  3. Being heckled generally doesn’t bother pro athletes very much anyway.

On the other hand, I believe Patrick is wildly underestimating the problems it might cause in the clubhouse. Many players would have no problem with it; a few years back David Cone was asked about it and replied that it was none of his business what a man did in the privacy of his own home. Cone, of course, is a man of class and dignity, which is why they asked him. However, at the same time, Chad Curtis (who also tells Jewish reporters they’re going to hell) said he’d never share a locker room with a homosexual.

Major league ballplayers are athletes, male athletes; there is a strong macho culture in pro sports. They are held up to traditional stereotypes of macho behaviour. This is exacerbated by the fact that MLB ballplayers are disproportionately made up of ethnic and religious groups that are perhaps not as positive about gay rights as the population of the SDMB. I think most teams would have a lot of players who would simply not be accepting of a gay player.

Of course, that was true of black players entering MLB, too. The comparison to Jackie Robinson is interesting because both Robinson and his American League counterpart, Larry Doby, were signed and brought on board by general managers (Branch Rickey and Bill Veeck) whose standing policies were “We’re gonna play this black guy and if you don’t like it you can get the hell out.” The story goes that when Doby entered the Cleveland locker room, all the players but three shook his hand. Veeck got rid of those three players before the season started.

The effect of those teams’ commitment to Robinson and Doby was to rally the team around the players. Robinson, for those who don’t know, was forbidden by Branch Rickey from fighting back against physical abuse and racist taunts for two years, because he wanted Robinson to prove he belonged with his bat and his glove. That wasn’t easy for Robinson, who was a proud man and a fierce competitor, but he was also very, very smart, and saw the value in it; combined with the fact that Rickey was systematically dumping anyone who had a real problem with it and the fact that the team’s manager, Leo Durocher, loved Robinson, the team and the fans rallied around Robinson. The racist taunts and abuse because taunts and abuse against the Dodgers, not just Robinson, and they fought back as a team. The team, BTW, improved immensely upon Robinson’s arrival. Much the same was true of Larry Doby’s arrival in Cleveland; because of Bill Veeck’s leadership and willingness to dispose of anyone who didn’t like his way of doing things, the Indians rallied around Doby as a team, and the team got better. It helps that both players were certifiable superstars, but the support their teams gave them was invaluable.

(I do not mean to make Rickey and Veeck sound like civil rights heroes; they had an obvious self-interest in bringing black players on board, because they both got the jump on everyone else in digging into a goldmine of star ballplayers. But they both did display the ethical and moral strength to stand by their decisions.)

So the real question with a gay player is whether the team would show the leadership to support him. If Slugger Smith of the Cardinals comes out of the closet, will the Cardinals trade or release J.D. Drew or Matt Morris if they express dissatisfaction? (I don’t know what Drew and Morris think of gays - I’m just using two great Cardinals players as examples.) Or will the Cardinals do nothing about it, say “Not our business” and not actively support the player the way the Dodgers and Indians supported Robinson and Doby?

4

Maybe he meant Frank Robinson’s struggle with the Expos.

Hometown fans will cheer players that help them win or they view as being slighted by others (John Rocker and the media in Atlanta’s case). Hometown fans will boo players that are slumping or screwing up on the field. There will be a minority of fans that will boo a player because of some personal circumstance, and of course it will be these situations that get the air time.

As for road games, a good fan will pick on whatever they can pick on when it comes to razzing an opponent. A really good fan will realize the where the line is between heckling and outright evil.

5

Damn it! Yes, I meant Jackie Robinson! May the baseball gods forgive me!

I was referring to a super star player, not just your average major leaguer.

I see what you are saying, I feel the same way about Sammy Sosa. I guess it’s ok if you beat a divorce out of your first wife with a rum bottle if you hit 60 homers a year. You’ll never see me cheer for him however and I get quite upset when people claim him to be a hero.

But players only play half their games at home. Would they have to ban signs & t-shirts referring to that player? Would they have to take extra pre-cautions at the parks? Just how tolerant would your average American be?

6

Abusive signs are strictly forbidden in major league ballparks, and I’ve heard that the same rule is sometimes applied to T-shirts as well.

7

My random guesses:

  1. The players will probably accept it, being the professionals they are (or claim to be).

  2. The fans will probably accept it, if the player plays a good game, because the fans’ first love will be the game.

  3. The conservatives, naturally, will be completely pissed off, claiming that the homosexuals have corrupted the “all-American” pasttime of baseball, or somesuch. :rolleyes:

Whether or not #3 can overcome #1 and #2 is the question.

8

Conservative does not necessarily equal homophobic. What about the Log Cabin Republicans? I think the word you meant to use is “bigot,” as in “The bigots, naturally, will be completely pissed off…”

9

Actually, I suspect that the groundwork is being laid (lain?) for this – you remember the column by the gay writer/editor that mentioned that his boyfriend’s closeted status was a problem between them, but he needed time to come out since he played in MLB for an East Coast club?

And of course, this set off a lot of speculation about who it was; the version I heard identified the BF as Brady Anderson (formerly of the Orioles, now playing for the Indians).

But consider, would not this scenario be appropriate as the opening moves in allowing a man to come out gracefully and be accepted, after the usual rumors and stuff?

10

No, gobear, he definitely meant “conservatives,” because as we all know, all conservatives are gay-hating cross-burners. The fact that you and Anthracite and Andrew Sullivan are all gay conservatives simply means that you are all soon to be the victims of spontaneous internal combustion and there’s nothing anyone can do to stop it. So there.

As far as the players being consummate professionals, read RickJay’s first post, because he’s got it exactly right. Different sport, but remember Reggie White? You think he’d share a locker room–let alone the field–with an out-of-the-closet homosexual? There are an awful lot of Reggie Whites in major league sports.

11

In my opinion, people will have to get used to gay baseball players whether they “are ready for it or not”. Even today in 2002, there are bigots who denigrate people of color and “are not ready” for everyone qualified person to reach for their dreams. If we waited for everyone to feel comfortable with everyone else, women and other minorities would still be waiting to enjoy the same rights that white males have always enjoyed.

12

Well, I was intending “conservative” to mean social conservative, as those folks seem to be most reluctant to tolerate homosexuality, but I can see how that’d be misinterpreted.

(Darn, there goes pldennison’s sweeping generalization, eh? :wink: )

13

An out-of-the-closet baseball player would be in for some very difficult times but I think teammates would eventually deal with it and focus on the mission. These guys are professionals. I think most of them have learned how to be productive team members. Sooner or later they would look past the sexual issue and lifestyle choice. I would bet there are at least a handful of players that are gay and not working that hard to keep it quiet. The players might strongly suspect but they don’t press the issue. Baseball players that have managed to reach this elite level obviously know what should and should not become a focal point.

14

Wouldn’t a player that publicly said disparaging comments about an outed player, whether on his team or not, risk getting vilified ala John Rocker, to the point that it would affect his career options? I suspect we have reached the point where it would.

That said, I think it would be extremely difficult for a player to come out, based solely on the added pressures that would bring to his job. It’s hard enough for a major-league caliber player to focus on the task at hand w/o being appointed the de facto spokesman for homosexual athletes. Can you imagine all the asinine media questions in the locker room after the game? All the times he’d be expected to provide a sound bite for whatever controversial gay-themed topic ruled the day? All the added media coverage every time he went out in public, especially if he went to a gay bar? All the public appearances he would be pressured into making by the local homosexual political lobby? It seems to me that maintaining a high skill level with all these added pressures would keep them in the closet, regardless of whether or not baseball players and fans were ready for it.

(I mean no offense by my comments, if they are insensitive in a way I haven’t realized I apologize).

15

Frank Robinson is gay?

16

A local radio talk show host posed this question the other day.

His premise was that an openly gay player would not be accepted by the fans, at least not in the same way as a straight player. And even though the jerk annoys me, I think he had a point.

Can you imagine the typical fan going to Modell’s or Champ’s and buying the jersey of a gay ball player?

Can you imagine middle school kids saying they want to be just like Famous Gay Ball Player and hording his baseball cards?

Can’t you imagine the guys at the bar going “eeew!” if someone was to goof up and actually cheer for Famous Gay Ball Player?

There would be an uncoolness associated with the guy, let’s face it.

I think the struggle of black ball players and gay ball players wouldn’t be similar. First off, while black people have been associated with a lot of bad things, wimpiness, weakness, and physical incompetency have never been attributed to them. Gays, on the other hand, HAVE been associated with these things. So gay ball players have a huge stereotype to challenge. It would take a gay guy to be a super duper ball player for him to escape all the unfair criticism. He would have to be the most excellent pitcher, because you know all gays throw like a girl. He would have to run good and manly because you know all that sasshaying slows the gays down. He would have to steal all the bases, because you know those gays don’t like getting dirty. He would have to be stoic when the umpire gives an unfair call because you know those gays are overly emotional. He would have to be perfect because just being “regular” wouldn’t be good enough.

And even still he wouldn’t be cool (unless, that is, you’re one of those gays. :))

17

To expand on monstro’s post, I do think there would be a unique problem because of the fear some people have of being believed to be a homosexual. No one worried that by supporting Robinson they would be suspected of being a closet African-American. But the only way to get over this is to go through with it: America won’t ever be so “ready” that it won’t be painful.

I do think that the first (and probably more like the first dozen) super-star gay athelte will have to be in a commited relationship. It’s much easier to pretend that a gay person is really asexual if they have a vauge, never-seen SO than if they are actively dating–the trips to the gay bar Dooku mentioned.

18

This is ridiculous.

Some people won’t notice, some people will cheer and some people will be pissed off.

Some people will do hateful things to spite the player and show-off their own ignorance. Hopefully those people will quickly be exposed for the idiots they are and over time we can all just move on.

It’s going to be a shitty process for the first guy to come out of the closet, but is there really anyone out there who thinks that all baseball players are and always have been straight?

19

Of course not, which is why it’s crummy for the gay ones to have to stay in the closet for the afformentioned fears.

20

Well, perhaps the experiences of Martina Navratilova are instructive.

Did people boo her? Not at all. They politely applauded when she won (which was often!), and more or less accepted her. But they never loved her, never embraced her. And she was never sought out for endorsements or commercials, as the more feminine Chris Evert always was.

My hunch is, if a star player came out of the closet, most teammates and fans would say all the “right” things, and he’d get massive support from the media. But fans and teammates would keep him at arm’s length. He’d never be embraced or loved by fans, and he’d be finished in terms of commercials and endorsements.