To those who haven’t seen this film, an Islamic fundamentalist group battles for political power in 12th century Andalusia. The leader of the religious sect is well aware of how he manipulates religious doctrine to seduce young people into joining and his eyes are focused on political power.
Is Bin Laden too seeking something on the lines of political power (over Saudi Arabia? entire Arab world?) while being aware and conscious of his propaganda OR is he self-deluded/insane, believes firmly in what he says, and would actually be appeased if, say his laundry list of demands is fulfilled?
Why would he have to be self-deluded and insane or politically manipulative to want what he considers right for his part of the world? Were Jefferson, Adams, Washington etc.? Was Castro? Was Juarez? Was Cromwell?
He may well be all of those things you suggest at the same time. It strikes me as pretty simplistic to think in your “either…or” terms.
I am asking if he is consciously utilizing tools of religious propaganda to recruit people to fulfill his own political goals. By consciously, I imply that he does not fully believe in what he says, and morover, has motives over and above what he claims.
\In*sane", a. [L. insanus. See In- not, and Sane.] 1. Exhibiting unsoundness or disorder of mind; not sane; mad; deranged in mind; delirious; distracted.
I’m not sure a clinical psychologist or a psychiatrist would conclude that the man is “insane,” but by the less-stringent connotations of the term as it is generally used in Western societies, yeah, I’d say the bastard is insane. Were he suddenly transported to Al’s Diner down the road, I’m sure every other patron would conclude in short order that he’s nutso.
It’s important to understand, however, that in the context of the Islamic Middle East, he is widely considered to be not only sane, but actually a hero and a visionary. His actions and those of his minions are often seen as heroic feats of battle.
WWII in the Pacific Theater brought up similar questions about the Japanese leaders, simply because their views and aims, and their ways of going about acheiving them, were seen by Americans as being barbaric to the point of insanity. Individual soldiers were staggered and sometimes demoralized upon fighting an enemy who would not surrender under any circumstances. This exemplified insanity in Western minds, but it was normal and expected in the minds of the Japanese.
Simple “belief in what is right” does not equate to saneness or legitimacy. Some of the most horrific crimes in history were committed by people who believed they were right.
Now I don’t know if Osama is “insane”. I don’t think he suffers from a psychosis or dimensia or anything like that, but IANAP.
Just another charismatic meglomaniac with dilusions of grandeur who feeds off of the misery of the poor and oppressed.
lets see though, I can certainly assure you that he is infinitely more sane than yourself. Meaning he is a more complicated being capable of rationaling understanding simpletons such as you or I very easilly. So he is an extremely high level/intelligent person. That being said, his value system might be considered insane when compared to ours. perhaps we’re insane instead?
I guess most of you think he genuinely believes in what he says, whether misguided, insane or not. To reiterate, I was wondering if he has ulterior motives such as political power and was consciously manipulating people with little regard to his own beliefs. I haven’t come across any such information myself.
Just this week I had the opportunity of talking with a prince of Afghanistan (nephew of the former king) who shared some really interesting viewpoints on Bin Laden and the whole Al Qaeda and Taliban thing.
Relevant to this thread on Bin Laden, he was quite convinced that Bin Laden was very much a cultist, in the vein of David Koresh etc. Whether one has to be literally insane and deluded to be a cult leader - or just evil enough to pretend to believe your cult’s doctrine - I personally can’t say. My contact believes Bin Laden is solely using the fudamentalist Islamic thing as a tool to control and motivate his followers - he doesn’t believe Bin Laden really follows it from his own heart.
Remember also that Bin Laden is educated and a businessman, he is extremely clever at making and moving money (and escaping from half the world’s intelligence systems - my contact believes him to be currently residing in forest areas of Indonesia). I don’t think he is insane in the sense of a rambling madman foaming at the mouth. I think he is insane like Hitler - deluded in the sense of achieving some false utopia by evil means - and like Hitler extremely brilliant politically, cunning, and charismatic.
Had his qualities been turned towards good rather than evil, who knows what sort of regional or even world leader he may have become?
Wasn’t Hitler considered “insane” for his mindless hatred of the Jews? One could be brilliant, cunning and still be irrational (a better word?) in his/her views. But, your contact believes he is a conscious propagandist, not self-deluded… Interesting.
Though there is very little information available, it seems to me from the audio/video tapes that he does indeed believe in what he is doing and has little or no tangible ulterior motives. That said, the way he has co-opted the Palestinian cause into Al-Qaeda’s charter looks very suspicious.
there are a lot of insane people in the world… a lot have no authority and are cared for mercifully in environments suitable to their situation
this man is free, has authority, power, and above all else a following of ‘like minded’ advocates.
if he was selling popcorn at coney island no one would care.
the fruit of the insanity if you agree exists is what we are experiencing.
