One of the models on our site is into suspension (It’s a safe-for-work link, but it may make you go all oogy inside when thinking about it).
Muscles. Roles. Money. All else is window dressing to attract these three.
You keep saying this; it’s seems like you must be under the impression that it has something to do with what we’re discussing. Do you know what the term “sexual fetish” means? Do you understand what we’re talking about in this thread?
Safe for work, but not safe for my mind.
EeeeYOWCH!
Women can be pretty darn kinky.
I think the reason why this doesn’t come out is that we simply don’t take women’s sexuality as seriously as we take a man’s. We don’t consider much that women to do be sexually threatening. Perhaps this is because we don’t really care what a woman does as long as she gets married and has kids at some point. Maybe this is because we consider women to be intrinsicly kinky. Perhaps this is because most kinks involve and element of submission, which we consider only natural in a woman.
Look at some stereotypes-
A man who fucks sheep is a perv. A woman who likes her dog to lick her is a little eccentric- gross, but probably not a dealbreaker. A man who has sex with his kids is one of the world things on earth. A woman who has sex with her kids is wrong, but not evil. A gay man is an affront to nature. A gay women is probably going through a phase. A bi man is probably looking for a weak excuse to fuck everything that moves. A bi woman is probably a little confused and following a trend.
Think- which is worse- a male furry or a female one? A woman that draws anthropomophised figures in her notebook at school probably doesn’t even merit a second look. A woman that incorporates elements of bondage gear into her wardrobe could still probably wear them to work if they are subtle. People that say that men arn’t subjected to gender roles are wrong- their sexuality is much more tightly controlled than ours.
Cheez! Go find something tough to chew on, all right? :rolleyes:
Maybe I’m just crying sour grapes here, but it’s my conviction that a woman’s sexual desires – unless she’s very, very unusual – are based mostly on biological imperatives. What turns her on is what’s useful, what’s suitable, what will help theoretical offspring become strong and dominant in the battle for resources that is life.
If you accept this, it would seem to follow that the typical female sexual fetish will have to do with symbols of strength, power, and dominance. Okaaaay???
I think even sven nailed it. It’s only been a few decades since even “vanilla” female sexuality has been socially acknowleged to exist. Female “Out there” sexuality is still somewhat shocking. My WAG is that women are more or less as kinky as men.
So are men also bound by biological imperatives? Because what biological imperative explains men who like watching women crush bugs with high heels? Or men who like to watch women blow up balloons? Or are men not the product of biological imperatives like women?
You already stated your ignorant take on the subject. It was the first reply to the OP. The fact that no one bothered responding to it doesn’t mean you needed to say it again.
I’m not following this… If by “likes her dog to lick her”, you mean on the face or hand, then that’s considered perfectly normal for either gender. If you’re talking about licking genitals, then I think that’s considered equally perverted for men or women, and likewise I think that penetrative sex with an animal would be considered the same for either gender. And a mother who has sex with her kids is every bit as reprehensible as a father who does the same.
Beware of Doug, at most you’ve restated the question, but you haven’t come close to answering it. Even supposing it’s the case, as you claim, that the female sex drive is based on biological imperatives to a greater degree than the male’s, the question then is why that would be the case. Which is more or less what the OP is wondering.
Heh. Yes, furries can fetishize their own furriness, but furryism(?) is usually about cosplay and role palying. Not all of them are into furry sex or “furpiles” and “furry as fetish” isn’t where the origins of the furry lie. They were born of FurryMuds and FurryMucks – the multi-user dungeon online role-playing games of olde (which are still played).
Being a furry paints you as rather odd in the eyes of the mainstream, but doesn’t automatically make you a perv.
Exactly. Rather like the old chestnut: “What’s the difference between kinky and perverted? Kinky is tickling someone with a feather. Perverted is using the whole chicken.”
If I hadn’t already seen The Cell I’d probably be really squicked out.
No … actually I’m still squicked out. Ow. Ow. Ow!
On the whole I think you have a point here, but there seem to be some fallacies inherent to the logic. As has been pointed out female pedophiles are just as evil as male ones, and bestiality is pretty much gross in either gender. (I certainly wouldn’t want to go where Fido’s just been!) Furthermore some subject matter is largely considered the domain of women – furries for example, being the next best thing to the ultimate expression of one’s love of animals, and by extension an outward expression of emotion in general – would be considered a feminine thing because men aren’t supposed to be emotionally expressive, and those who are, are considered more closer to “gay” (or at least “wimpy”) then those who aren’t. That’s one of the primary gender roles men grow up to learn. It follows then that male furries are “worse” than female because furryism(??) is more suited to female gender roles. It isn’t necessarily a perversion or even a kink for either to be interested in the subject. It’s just good old fashion gender-appropriateness at work – the same one that makes it okay for girls to like Barbie and guys to like GI Joe, but not the other way round.
As well, much of the gender pidgeon-holing is done by men. It’s less “okay” for men to be gay than women because generally speaking, to straight men, the idea of gay sex is revolting while the idea of lesbian sex is hot. Men dressing in women’s clothing is absurd while women dressing in men’s clothing is okay – to some even hot. Men working with power tools is just a man being a man. Women working with power tools is just hot. (There is no other reason for the existence of Benny Benassi’s video for Satisfaction) Since most of the corporate world is still largely male-dominated these gender roles are pretty firmly entrenched and continually enforced through media and general attitude.
I think that “out there” sexuality in general has only existed in the past few decades. When it comes to mainstream movies, for example, it’s only been 50 or so years between “A man may not appear in the same bed as a woman unless he keeps one foot on the floor” and “Penis yes, vulva no.” If anything, the idea of female-as-sex-object has a longer process of evolution than male sexuality. Evidence: First issue of Playboy: 1953. First issue of Playgirl: 1973 (which, incidentally, cultivated a 50/50 readership between women and gay men). Men have been staring at bush 20 years longer than women have been staring at weiner. Heck, go back even further to silent movie days and you’ll find old silent-movie porn – mostly featuring nude women. Obviously it wasn’t remotely mainstream at that point, but it existed.
I suspect it’s social conditioning to follow those biological imperatives.
With that I’m going to withdraw from this discussion, as I’ve come to realize I had no purpose getting into it beyond a sort of inarticulate pissing-and-moaning. Oh, and Excalibre, I’d say fuck you, but given the context I’ll instead say unfuck you.
Yes, female pedophiles are just as evil as male ones, morally. But society doesn’t treat them that way. I remember watching a movie where the mother having sex with her teenage son was a running joke. When stories of female pedophiles come out in the news, nobody calls for them to be strung up, or any of the colorful language you hear when people mention what should be done to male pedophiles. Mostly they say “I wonder whats wrong with her…”
I don’t know what your problem is with me. Do you even have any idea what you were trying to say with your virtually identical posts in this thread? Do you understand yet why they were not germane to the discussion? Do you even understand the question here (I ask because I see no sign that you do)? Do you have some actually theory of sexuality that you’ve merely been extremely inarticulate in explaining, or were you just sort of putting random words together?
Incidentally, if there was a “biological imperative”, why would “social conditioning” (which is what, exactly?) play a role in it? Why would you need to be “socially conditioned” in order to follow a “biological imperative”? I’d get irritated as I sometimes do about people posting on subjects they know absolutely nothing about, but in this case I can’t even tell what you’re trying to say. It’s not just that you’re not answering the question, you’re not even putting together comprehensible thoughts.
That’s mostly because males are seen as figures of power and control that can impose their will on children who are defenseless against them, while a woman’s primary offensive weapon in targeting children is their own sexuality as a means to use a male’s sex drive against himself. In the case of pre-pubescent pedophilia the power and control applies to both genders, but for men it comes from being cast in the traditional role of disciplinarian, and for women from the respect given the motherly role. That we treat pedophiles of each gender differently is a direct function of these traditional gender roles, even if those roles aren’t quite what they once were.
I’m bumping this thread as it’s an interesting one and I’m hoping that either the always astute kimera comes back to talk more or someone else who’s also studied human sexuality has something to say. I don’t know much about this topic but it’s pretty fascinating.
I think perhaps some were “oogied” out of existence by GuanoLad’s suspension link.
Or they’re trying it out.
Ouch…
Yes, patriarchy hurts men as well as women.
As far as female pedophiles, I’ve only encountered one admitted female pedophile and she was non-exclusive (now married and pregnant). There was an extremely controversial study (Rand et al) released in 1997 which stated that males are less harmed by “child-adult sex” than females. However, there is no evidence that this is biological. In our culture, males are encouraged to have sex more than females and a male with a high number of sexual partners is regarded less critically than a female with an equal number of partners. Our culture also assumes that males are in control more than females, so perhaps the males were less affected because the females felt more powerless. Then again, perhaps male pedophiles and female pedophiles treat their prey differently. Some of the pedophiles I’ve talked to at length said that they were pedophiles because they enjoyed the power they had over their sexual partners. Perhaps males are more likely to be this type of pedophile.
I find it interesting that pedophiles are overwhelmingly male but that ephebophiles appear to be equally composed of males and females. Most people would be surprised at the number of female ephebophiles that exist, after all, we have always been told that males seek young, fertile females and that females seek older, established male providers. However, male chimps and bonobos do not prefer to mate with adolescent females, in fact, the young females often have to pester the older males into sex while the older females just have to wait for the males to come. Are humans different? And if so, why?
There’s so much we don’t know on basic human sexuality and I’ve seen too many controversial studies to accept anything on this subject as fact right now. One study I read said that more men than women were into BDSM and of the women who were, 80% were prostitutes. Another one said that more woman than men were into BDSM. I suspect that the studies were so widely varied because it depends on how you define BDSM and where you conduct your polling. I’ve personally known more females than males into BDSM, but I’ve also noticed that my female friends who were into BDSM tended to stay away from general bondage websites and didn’t define themselves by their BDSM as the males I knew who were into it did.
For example, I’m into Boy’s Love which is male homoerotic stories, movies, comics, video games, etc made for women by women. It is a kink that is almost entirely composed of heterosexual women. A lot of women who enjoy this genre also are into BDSM and at the BL convention here in the US, there are often panels and exhibits which have to do with BDSM. However, most of these women do not participate in the online BDSM community, much less attend the conventions/huge events.
In his book “Our Inner Ape” (which I highly suggest) Frans De Waal is describing various sexual behaviors exhibited by the bonobos in the San Diego Wild Animal Park. He states on page 100:
I think it would be fascinating to do a study of primates and see if fetishes actually do exist among them and, if so, if it is equally found in both males and females.
Are there more female furries than male? Perhaps a furry here could enlighten me and give a ruling one way or another. On the furry wikipedia it says under the “female” entry.
kimera, I’ve mentioned this anecdote concerning BL, but one time, Hamish attended an anime convention in Toronto specifically for the yaoi; when he got there, he was pretty much the only guy, and a number of women pointedly asked him if he were in the right room. He had to patiently explain that yes, cartoons of cute guys fucking might potentially be of some tangential interest to gay men too.
Ex-furry (two years out, please don’t spit on me), from around the time I was fourteen or so to a little before I turned 20 (the last thing I could call participation was probably January or February 2004).
The short answer is that it’s a stag party, even at the PG-13 level. Girls seem to enjoy the cute, fuzzy animal-people, but start wandering off when they get pornographic (though, oddly enough, a lot of the highly-prized x-rated artists are female).
The longer answer is that I probably knew eight to ten guys for every girl, and that’s including the MTF transsexuals. They’re a surprisingly large contingent; for the first two or three years I knew more of them in the fandom than bio-girls. There has to be some serious armchair psychology there somewhere.
Hmm. There has to be an “Ask the…” thread here. Maybe in the morning.