Is bringing characters back from the dead generally a cheat?

[Irishman]

If resurrection is built in to the character as part of the premise, it is okay. Think of Doctor Who. It’s okay that the Doctor can regenerate. It’s built in. We expect it, we know it will happen.

Second, there need to be consequences - real costs for the resurrection. It can’t be a handwave and a smile. When the Doctor regenerates, he changes. (Okay, there’s that one exception, but it’s explained in a neat way. And it has its own consequences.) Buffy’s season 6 resurrection fits this nicely. Her friends mistakenly bring her back believing her to be in hell, but she was in heaven, and it unleashed the power of The First.

Angel’s return from Hell was a bit of a cheat. Angel became Angelus. Buffy had to kill him. But Willow managed some major mojo and restored his soul right as Buffy skewered him and sent him to the demon dimension. Very poignant, very emotionally painful. So what happens? They find a way to go to the demon dimension and bring him back. At least he suffered for a really long time there before they rescue him, but still, it’s a cheat. Yeah, you had to know Joss would find a way, but still, it’s a cheat.

Star Trek’s evil trick - bringing in an alternate replacement for the dead guy. Voyager did it with Ensign Kim. They kill Kim, then find an alternate universe with a parallel Voyager and parallel crew members, and at the end of the episode, parallel Kim comes back. MAJOR CHEAT! Otherwise, they were fond of timeline resets.

Having characters in the show think someone is dead, but we the audience are shown otherwise isn’t so bad. Having the audience think a character is dead, but then later revealed to be a misdirection, a fake death, can be okay depending on the circumstances. Bringing Tony Almeda back from the dead for this season of 24 - MAJOR CHEAT!

well he’s back said:

It’s a money not art driven choice in long running series (comic book or tv) usually. Remember when Magnum PI miraculously came back to life when Tom Selleck decided he wanted more paychecks?

Actually no, even though I watched the show. When did that happen?

GuanoLad said:

I think Aslan’s resurrection was nonsense. I’ve always thought so, ever since I first read the story. What kind of sacrifice is it when you know you’ll be resurrected? None at all, that’s what.

Well, there is some sacrifice to a long drawn out session of being tortured. Even if it isn’t physically disfiguring, it’s at least emotionally draining. But it certainly isn’t the measure of sacrifice that death is. Being able to resurrect means death isn’t a sacrifice, there’s just some inconvenience. Okay, maybe it’s unpleasant, but you’re there to tell the tale. Kinda like Wolverine is inconvenienced every time he extends his claws, and they cut through the skin on his hands. Ouch, but he’ll get over it.

[Bosda_Di_Chi_of_Tricor]

Is bringing characters back from the dead generally a cheat?

Obviously not, in a Horror novel/movie.

Of course, “back” is a somewhat…flexible term, in that context.

[Baldwin]

Wreak havoc.

@AlsoNamedBort

I’m surprised we’ve gotten through 37 posts without mention of X-Men’s stepchild: Heroes.

The show which has had the same main character “die” at the end of every season only to be revived. The biggest cheat though was bringing Noah back. His death had been predicted for the whole season, and was an extremely dramatic moment when he finally died…only to be brought back at the end of the episode.

And having so clearly established the possibility and means of resurrection, they arbitrarily don’t bring back Nathan, with no explanation why not.

[Merijeek]

@FriarTed

Totally hijacking this into a GD thought experiment- the nature of time-space interdimensional relations may be such that The Divine Son incarnated, died & rose simultaneously in all dimensions that needed redemption.

…and suddenly Marvel seems less silly.

-Joe

[Loach]

I’m probably the only one who saw the shoe Eyes. It came on a few years ago starring Tim Daly and was cancelled quickly. I only saw it the one time so my recollection is a bit hazy. I though the pilot was fantastic. At the end one of the main characters kills one of the other main characters. It was a complete surprise. I had no idea he was going to be a bad guy. The show gets picked up and the dead character is suddenly alive with just a scratch. The bad guy is still a bad guy but deballed since he is not a murderer, just a scratcher. It was a total cheat. A very good pilot but a very mundane show. It was cancelled for good reason.

[ZenBeam]

John Sheridan in Babylon 5. Not a cheat, because you, the viewer, never really believed he was dead or would die, and (IIRC) you found out he was still alive before you found out he was dead.

[Skald_the_Rhymer]

@Lumpy

Heh, Marvel has had so many characters come back from the dead that I remember a story where someone was begging Dr. Strange to bring someone back to life and was incredulous when the Dr. insisted that it just wasn’t doable.

To my horror, i know exactly who that was: Rick Jones, whose wife Marlo had just been knifed to death by some insane nutjob pretending to be Rick’s mother. Marlo got better, but shortly left Rick for another woman.

I expect that both Rick & Peter Parker have done something that just pissed Strange off.

[Skald_the_Rhymer]

@Not_A_Tame_Lion

When you raise someone from the dead once, it’s meaningful. When you do it over and over again, it’s a parlor trick. In one episode one of the Xena characters even says that very thing; Ares, if I remember correctly (and talk about irony there!). I suppose that makes it worse: they knew they were offenders, yet kept doing it anyway. No wonder the series finale blew ass.

I’m all alone in loving the Xena seres finale, aren’t I?

Well, it doesn’t matter; I still love it. And the Quantum Leap finale too.

[Bryan_Ekers]

Heck, when they made a TV series out of the movie Blue Thunder they resurrected the goofy co-pilot and the helicopter.
As a side note, one of my all-time most-hated episodes of Star Trek: TNG involves Worf dying and coming back to life, but not for that per se, but al the preachy hypocritical crap about medical ethics.

[Kobal2]

@Skald_the_Rhymer

But I will name a few exceptions:

1. Aslan. He’s Jesus, after all. (Though,given the fact that he died and resurrected in both Palestine and Narnia, I wonder how many other worlds he’s gone through this cycle and exactly how he pissed off the Emperor over the Sea to be fated to go through that.)

Meh. If you ask me, bringing back Jesus was sketchy in the first place : it’s totally out of character, cheapens the whole “fated altruistic sacrifice” subplot and the writers didn’t even use the him that much post-rez. I suppose you could say it demonstrates the power of that universe’s divinity, but that particular point of the background had already be established like 30 times before.
The hacks wanted him back for the sequel, and to milk the merchandising, end of story.

[well_he_s_back]

re Magnum P.I. (more than you wanted to know)
from Wiki - “At the end of the seventh season, Magnum was killed off, and this was intended to be the end of the series. However, there was outcry from fans, and an eighth, final season was produced, to bring Magnum ‘back to life’, and to round the series off.”
Thomas is delivering key evidence in his latest case to the court house, when he is shot in the parking lot by a hit man. Thomas, in a coma, discovers he is not dead, but not alive, and needs to help Michelle, who is in danger, and being chased by killers. He meets up with the ghost of his former Naval buddy Mac. He also spends time with each member of the cast individually, and, in one way or another, says good-bye and how important they are all to him, in case he does not survive. - from http://www.tv.com/magnum-p.i./limbo/episode/16142/summary.html
Actually, that was a moving episode. I indeed felt cheated when they brought him back the next year. And I felt cheated when Spock was brought back, in “The Search for Spock” was it? Made his sacrifice in “The Wrath of Khan” seem meaningless.

[Not_A_Tame_Lion]

@Skald_the_Rhymer

I’m all alone in loving the Xena seres finale, aren’t I?

Yeah, pretty much. So it goes.

[Bryan_Ekers]

@well_he_s_back

Made his sacrifice in “The Wrath of Khan” seem meaningless.

It was arguably meaningless in any case - if he’d done nothing, he’d’ve died anyway.

[Skald_the_Rhymer]

@Bryan_Ekers

It was arguably meaningless in any case - if he’d done nothing, he’d’ve died anyway.

Based on no evidence whatsodamnever, I’m willing to bet the Genesis wave would have killed him a lot quicker and less painfully than the radioactive warp chamber. My little sister refuses to watch Spock die, even to this day, as she’s been in love with Mr. Spock since 1974 or so.

Anyway, on the thread topic, teh big problem with Spock’s resurrection is that it entirely undoes the point of the TWoK, which is Kirk’s being forced to recognize his own limitations and mortality, and the need to carpe diem.

[Small_Hen]

@Kyla

I was just in the current Supernatural thread, so in keeping with that, bringing people back from the dead is one of the main threads of the show, so I hope it doesn’t cheapen the story - it IS the story… Everyone in this show needs massive amounts of therapy.)

I’ve always said that the Winchesters need to hire a full time grief councilor who just follows them around and helps them prepare for the other’s eventual death.
Grief Councilor Jerry: “Okay Dean, now we’re going to run through the scenario again. Sam will be over here, dead -”

Sam: “Excuse me, is it really necessary to cover me in blood? Can’t we just pretend I went peacefully in my sleep?”

Jerry: "No, this needs to be as authentic as possible. Now Dean, you’re going to find your brother dead. Tell me how you’re going to react.”

Dean: "With rage, revenge, and the whoring of my soul?”

Jerry: “No, that was how you reacted last time, and it didn’t go very well, did it?”

Dean: [hangs head] “No.”

Jerry: “You’re going to grieve, then accept. Grieve, then accept. Understand?"

Dean:” Grieve, then accept. Yeah. “

Jerry: “Okay. Now, there’s been a wendigo attack! Sam was tossed through the air and impaled on a rusty fence-"

Sam: “Hey!”

Jerry: “And you’ve just found him. Go!”

Dean: [lip quivers] “Saaaaam!” [Takes off at a run] “To the crossroads!”

Jerry: [facepalm]

Sam: [licks blood]

…I’ve really got to stop getting so excited everytime someone mentions Supernatural on this board.

[Regallag_The_Axe]

My take:
It’s OK in some situations. There has to some repercussion to the resurrection, and it must be made clear that it can’t happen all the time, to everyone. If the character is different after coming back it helps, like if some hero comes back and is all “You ungrateful bastards let me die, now I’m gonna kill you!” It’s also OK if the person shouldn’t have died to begin with (example: Sherlock Holmes). If people are coming back from Death’s gate left and right, or if it’s obviously motivated by a desire to make more money, then, no, it’s not OK, and I’ll probably stop watching, reading, whatever.

Similar to “Everyone comes back to life” is “No one important ever dies”. In this approach, it doesn’t matter what situation the heroes get into, because, hey no one important ever dies in this, they’ll be fine.

[Skald_the_Rhymer]

@Regallag_The_Axe

It’s also OK if the person shouldn’t have died to begin with (example: Sherlock Holmes).

I’ve never minded Mr. Holmes’s death, because I don’t care for immortal charaters.* I rather wish Conan Doyle had written his all the later stories the Hounds of the Baskerville way: with the implication that they were taking place before Reichenbach Falls.

[Laudenum]

Dr. Beckett in Stargate.

The way they killed him was shameful, and allowed a decent character absolutely no dignity exploding tumours.

To bring that character back to life was rediculous. He was dead, leave him alone.

[TooSchoolforCool]

I think there’s a big difference between a planned, in-story logic resurrection and one that’s done in a show or comic just to bring back a lucrative or popular character. And then the next big difference is: do the writers at least try to DEAL with the comeback in some interesting way? Does it have consequences that keep the story whole and moving WITH the death/comeback, instead of simply using it solely to get more play out the character?

Buffy, for instance: sure they brought her back to keep the show going. But they put an excellent and fairly pointed twist on it:

she was in HEAVEN, blissful in her just reward, and was sucked back to a fairly pain-filled life.

That kept it from being cheap. It did make the season sort of dark, and some people weren’t happy with that, but it’s certainly an idea that keeps it from being a pure, without-consequence reset button.

[Skald_the_Rhymer]

@TooSchoolforCool

I think there’s a big difference between a planned, in-story logic resurrection and one that’s done in a show or comic just to bring back a lucrative or popular character. And then the next big difference is: do the writers at least try to DEAL with the comeback in some interesting way? Does it have consequences that keep the story whole and moving WITH the death/comeback, instead of simply using it solely to get more play out the character?

Buffy, for instance: sure they brought her back to keep the show going. But they put an excellent and fairly pointed twist on it:

she was in HEAVEN, blissful in her just reward, and was sucked back to a fairly pain-filled life.

That kept it from being cheap. It did make the season sort of dark, and some people weren’t happy with that, but it’s certainly an idea that keeps it from being a pure, without-consequence reset button.

I think I mentioned Buffy above as the best example of a good resurrection. It was made clear that the revivification was too difficult to be done casually or often, if ever again; and, furthermore, the consequences were simply awful for Buffy personally & the world generally. Nobody would ever try THAT again.

Well, okay, Willow would. But she’s all evil & stuff.